Flywheel choices

#1
I have what think is 212 cc Powehorse from Northern. It could be a 208 cc because the guy I purchased it from gave me an extra pull start cover and it had 208cc. Either way i want to install a billet fw and rod. There are so many option to choose from even price ranges. Amazon has their 35 dollar option and GoKartUSA :starts at 120.
Is it as simple as just matching the shaft size (3/4 in my case)?

edit:
Turns out its a Ducar 208. So i am searching for aftermarket parts for this size engine.
 
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SAS289

Well-Known Member
#2
Ducar 208? Nice.

The 208 is a big bore clone. 70mm bore and 54mm stroke. Most likely parts like the rod, cam, and flywheel are GX200/196 clone.

Be careful with those $35 cast aluminum flywheels. They come timed to somewhere around 18 degrees BTDC. You may find the same flywheel advertised with 28 degree timing, but they are selling for $55 or more. If you don't want to deal with the 18 degree timing, get the one timed to 28.

Another good option is the PVL flywheel. Racing Cams and Parts | PVL Flywheel, Clone, Honda GX160/200 | DC-PVL-FW | DynoCams
 
#3
Ducar 208? Nice.

The 208 is a big bore clone. 70mm bore and 54mm stroke. Most likely parts like the rod, cam, and flywheel are GX200/196 clone.

Be careful with those $35 cast aluminum flywheels. They come timed to somewhere around 18 degrees BTDC. You may find the same flywheel advertised with 28 degree timing, but they are selling for $55 or more. If you don't want to deal with the 18 degree timing, get the one timed to 28.

Another good option is the PVL flywheel. Racing Cams and Parts | PVL Flywheel, Clone, Honda GX160/200 | DC-PVL-FW | DynoCams
Thanks for the insight! I decided to keep it the way it is and put the cash I would spend modding the clone towards a stock unmolested engine.
 
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#4
Thanks for the insight! I decided to keep it the way it is and put the cash I would spend modding the clone towards a stock unmolested engine.
I see you edited the "tilly 212" out.

There's much better, less expensive engines available.

https://www.dynocams.com/item/212-1000/

https://www.eccarburetors.com/Ducar-212-Hemi-wPVL-Flywheel_p_2036.html

Heres a good read why the Ducar is perfered over the tilly.
https://www.eccarburetors.com/tillotson-7hp-212e-hemi-engine

This is a hoss of an engine, but needs a flywheel and throttle assembly
https://www.dynocams.com/item/224-1000/

Different versions of the wildcat 223
https://www.eccarburetors.com/wildcat-223-performance-engines

Comparisons of some, but not Ducar. I doubt he will ever compare a Ducar with any other "outta the box" engine.
 
#5
This is interesting, I waffled back and forth for the last two days on whether i would pop on a wildcat. Its a really nice engine, with the strength added and a ft piston. But ultimately, I decided to get me a new predator 224 (ducar block). They were on were on sale and really I just wanted to ride the bike.
 
#6
The more research I did on what was the best engine the more bogged down i was getting, information overload kinda deal. In the future I would to have thw Wildcat, but who knows by then what will be the latest and greatest.
 
#7
This is interesting, I waffled back and forth for the last two days on whether i would pop on a wildcat. Its a really nice engine, with the strength added and a ft piston. But ultimately, I decided to get me a new predator 224 (ducar block). They were on were on sale and really I just wanted to ride the bike.
Go around and check all bolt torque specs on the pred 224, including the rod bolts.

It is a ducar block, but I seriously doubt ducar put them together. It is not even close to a TRUE DUCAR engine. The clearances, specs and bolt torque are all over the place.

I tore 3 NIB pred 224's apart, summer of 22', and they ALL 3 were different. 1 had the flywheel nut so loose, it spun the starter cup on the first pull. Lucky I was tearing it down to check specs when I noticed it.

Once you get ALL the bolts torqued to spec, check crank end play, coil air gap, and valve lash, then you should be safe to fire it it.

Heres engine and bolt torque specs I use for all honda/clone ohv engines.

https://www.arcracing.com/blog/box-stock-project-196cc-engine-and-torque-specifications/

I kept 1 pred 224, built it up, spec'ed it out, wouldn't trade it for anything else, but it took alot of time and money to get it this way. The only thing left from the stock pred 224 is the block, crank, head and valves. The head has a lil port work and valve unshrouding.

The pred 224 uses the same flywheel, rod, and cam as the honda/clone. That's a big plus to me, makes finding and changing parts easier.

I'm not a fan of the WC 223.
The piston sits .050" down in the cylinder at TDC. The only rod available (+.050" longer then stock) for it to get close to the deck using the stock ft piston, cost $85, and only ECCarbs has it. Nothing against eccarbs, I use them often, but that's more cost to the build to me.

https://www.eccarburetors.com/8182-3353-forged-connecting-rod-for-wildcat-223cc-clone-engines.html

Then there's the hemi head, which leaves a person with a limited cam selection. Of coarse anybody can spend more money for a custom piston and head work, but again more money for the build. And it might be hard to find a piston for that new $85 rod. Wiesco pistons starts at $100, again more money.

Here's some beginner builds from ECCarbs, they don't keep that stock hemi head very long before they change over to the non hemi head.

https://www.eccarburetors.com/wildcat-223-hemi-builders-guide.html

That'll make a man scratch his head a time or 2, lol.

Now if I had a customer that needed a engine with electric start and charging coils, then MY 1st choice would be the WC 223 electric start. I would keep it governored and set it up to turn no more then 4200 rpm.

Good luck with your new purchase, it is a stump pulling lil engine and don't need to be reved to the moon to get weight moving. That 58mm crank makes a big difference.
 
#9
Great info from these links. Definitely going to go through it and see whats to tight/loose. I am watching the guy from ARC racing describe his rebuilding process/torque specs etc.
Jody has got some very USEFUL info in his vids. Somes a lil long, lol.

I started watching him 4 or 5 yrs ago. They surely help my builds nowadays.

The 1st thing I check on every engine is crank end play. I can jus about guess what it's gonna take, or what to eye ball real good, to get an engine up to par when checking crank end play.

2nd, is piston to cylinder clearance. If a cylinder is outta round, tapered, or hr glass shaped, it's best to find another block. I've put some bad blocks together before, they always down on power, and jus not worth the time and money.

Ring end gaps are important too. I try to get em .010"-.012", but that don't always work out.

As long as the piston to cylinder is good, the end gaps can be a lil wider, jus try to keep the 2nd ring .002"-.004" wider then the top ring.

I've had to use them up to .018"-.020" and they still have a good seal to keep pressure on top of the piston, make good power too.

Good luck with your build, sounds like you are willing to learn, and not jus throwing good money away on useless parts you don't need.
 
#11
Seems to me that mini bikes and engine building are overlapping hobbies. Which is good because to outsiders (spouses) they appear to be only one hobby .

So what I think i will do is tear down the predator so I can check the specs. Will probably ditch the factory exhaust and tank. Install, ride and enjoy. Post pics later this morning hopefully.
In the meantime, I will look over the 208 i have on the shelf and see if its a candidate for a fresh rebuild.
Definitely will be tapping into your experience and input. Appreciate you!
 

SAS289

Well-Known Member
#12
I think it's a good idea to open them up before they are run. I've bought four Harbor Freight engines and all of them came with surprises inside the block. All three 196's had loads of metal shavings and one of them had a hand tightened rod bolt. The 224 was clean except for a large aluminum shaving sitting on top of the oil low sensor. The Hisun 196's that came with the Coleman bikes were very clean.

I agree with Brownstain. Ducar may have a "Harbor Freight Utility engine" section in their facility for the Predator 224. It's not all bad though.
 
#13
Finally got everything back together and ready to break it in properly. The crank endplay was not out of spec. But i will recheck after a few hours rinding. All the other internals were torqued correctly.
The only “upgrade” is a tillotson TFB mechanical fuel injection card.
Im curious if its worth upgrading the springs or is that only something you do when to change the Cam?
 

SAS289

Well-Known Member
#16
Finally got everything back together and ready to break it in properly. The crank endplay was not out of spec. But i will recheck after a few hours rinding. All the other internals were torqued correctly.
The only “upgrade” is a tillotson TFB mechanical fuel injection card.
Im curious if its worth upgrading the springs or is that only something you do when to change the Cam?
You can upgrade the springs if you want but it's not necessary on a governed engine.
 
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