Home Machine Shop

korndog

New Member
#1
Any of you guys ever use the 3 in 1 machines I see. I was thinking about picking up a couple of pieces my garage at some point and found the Smithy machines. Are they worth a damn.

Smithy
 

Oldsalt

Well-Known Member
#2
Not worth the space they would take up in a shop. Total junk. Not 50% junk...total junk. Not only the construction [of every one I've ever seen] but the design. Almost unworkable if a guy really needs to get something done. They have been around, in one form or another, for a lot of years. Very unhandy to use and of rather limited use. You will be disapointed if you buy one. Unfortunately the only good way to get a lathe and mill is to buy a lathe and a mill.
 

korndog

New Member
#3
Interesting. You know I have been reading a bit and I noticed that some guys buy the cheap HF mills and buy all kinds of bolt-on kits just like the mini bikers do with the clone engines. they take a 500.00 mill and put 1500.00 more into it. I'm not just talking about tooling either. funny.
 

Oldsalt

Well-Known Member
#4
Interesting. You know I have been reading a bit and I noticed that some guys buy the cheap HF mills and buy all kinds of bolt-on kits just like the mini bikers do with the clone engines. they take a 500.00 mill and put 1500.00 more into it. I'm not just talking about tooling either. funny.
Another thing to avoid, unless it is a used machine at almost give-a-way price, is a Mill/Drill. The only thing that is true about them is the drill portion of the name. But even that is very limited in comparison to a real drill press because you can't get anything tall between the quill and the bed of a Mill/Drill. A real mill has a 'knee'...in other words the table can be cranked up or down in a precison manner...the Mill/Drill table is fixed. And that is a really big problem. You can only work well in the X axis and Y axis.

IMHO the only way to get a lathe and a mill and a drill press is to get a lathe a mill and a drill press. Two in One and Three in One rigs will not do what is necessary if we are really talking about machine work. Sure, it will take a while to acquire them but at least a guy won't be buying things that sooner or later he will have to damn near give-a-way.
 

korndog

New Member
#5
Another thing to avoid, unless it is a used machine at almost give-a-way price, is a Mill/Drill. The only thing that is true about them is the drill portion of the name. But even that is very limited in comparison to a real drill press because you can't get anything tall between the quill and the bed of a Mill/Drill. A real mill has a 'knee'...in other words the table can be cranked up or down in a precison manner...the Mill/Drill table is fixed. And that is a really big problem. You can only work well in the X axis and Y axis.

IMHO the only way to get a lathe and a mill and a drill press is to get a lathe a mill and a drill press. Two in One and Three in One rigs will not do what is necessary if we are really talking about machine work. Sure, it will take a while to acquire them but at least a guy won't be buying things that sooner or later he will have to damn near give-a-way.
ok, let me throw this at your oldsalt. a very accomplished machinist I know said that a EMCO Maximat is an extremely well made machine that is well suited for a home shop and would suit most of my needs very comfortably. He has a number of mills and other machines but uses his Maximat extensively and has since 1974. Know anything about these Austrian Lathe/Mills. there happens to be one in my neighborhood for sale at a very good price.
 

Oldsalt

Well-Known Member
#6
ok, let me throw this at your oldsalt. a very accomplished machinist I know said that a EMCO Maximat is an extremely well made machine that is well suited for a home shop and would suit most of my needs very comfortably. He has a number of mills and other machines but uses his Maximat extensively and has since 1974. Know anything about these Austrian Lathe/Mills. there happens to be one in my neighborhood for sale at a very good price.

Don't know much about the Maximat...have just heard the name and recall seeing an ad. I don't believe that are still sold. For sure couldn't be any worse that the China ones. I'm fairly sure that the quill in the mill is not for an R8 collet. Probably a #3 Moorse Taper. Not good. ANY mill that will be able to work anything larger than a 1/4" end mill will have to have R8 collets. The Morse taper WILL NOT stay seated in its socket if any side pressure is used which will certinally be the case if an end mill is being used. It was never designed, or until reciently, used for that. So, unless a guy believes in the tooth fairy, it is really a 2 in 1 machine...a half a## drill and a badly compromised lathe. Most of the 3 in 1 jobs also rely on change gears rather than a quick change box. Big trouble. The Drill/Mill, attached to the headstock of the lathe, has to have a lot of distance between it and the cross slide on the lathe saddle. That's necessary to make it so at least a small item can be placed under its quill. The problem is that the center of the lathe chuck has to be raised, usually, to a rediculous extent. That, in turn, makes the tool post so high that any sembulace of regidity is lost. If you are going to make parts from only wood or plastic it is almost serviceable. OK, maybe brass and aluminum and some steel if slow light cuts are made. Anoter drawback is that for all the units I have seen there is no way to use a steady rest. Or a follow rest. IMHO a steady reast is an absolute must for a LOT of jobs...the follow rest you can probably do without.

You say its for sale at a very good price. Bear in mind that an ENCO 3 in 1 goes from $1,100 to $1,600 to $2,000 for their three sizes. If you can pick up a used machine for a few hundred it might be nice to own. But if the price is 7, 8 or 9 I'd walk away even if I did not own any machine tools and had a bunch of loot burning a hole in my pocket. Also what kind of tooling come with the machine? Should have 3 and a 4 jaw chucks, face plate, live and dead centers, tools and tool holders, drill chuck, and other sundries. Even at a few hundred it had better have all the commonly required accessories. If not you will, as you noted in another post, have double the money in the rig before long. It is common for people to offer lathes for sale without the other required tooling in the hopes that it won't be noticed.

I guess you can tell that I don't partiularly care for multi-funtion tools. I have, part time, instructed machining classes at community college level, manual and CNC. Have owned lots of different machine tools...just to make the point that I might know what I'm talking about I have attached a pic of my biggest lathe...a 16" Monarch tool room lathe. I feel I do know what I'm talking about after 45 years of experiance in industry and at home. Ya...that's me in the pic.
 
#7
I have never used any of the 3 in 1 machines but their are guy's out there that swear by them and swear at them. I get the Home Shop Machinist magazine and their has been very few articles about them in the last twenty five years. I get buy with my 1946 9" South Bend lathe and the old bridgeport mill in the garage.
 
#9
Interesting. You know I have been reading a bit and I noticed that some guys buy the cheap HF mills and buy all kinds of bolt-on kits just like the mini bikers do with the clone engines. they take a 500.00 mill and put 1500.00 more into it. I'm not just talking about tooling either. funny.
Once you start using a vert mill, you notice how much quicker and easier jobs become if you add a power feed, digital readout (DRO) and a tilt/swivel fixture...

...and for my two cents worth on the original question about a 3 in 1 machine...they're probably fine for hobbyists, but there are a lot of projects that can't be done because of the machine's layout...and they are much slower to set up and use than a single-purpose machine.
 
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#10
Once you start using a vert mill, you notice how much quicker and easier jobs become if you add a power feed, digital readout (DRO) and a tilt/swivel fixture...

...and for my two cents worth on the original question about a 3 in 1 machine...they're probably fine for hobbyists, but there are a lot of projects that can't be done because of the machine's layout...and they are much slower to set up and use than a single-purpose machine.
Thanks YH, I was hoping you would chime in. I'm thinking this over now.
The Maximat I was looking at was sold, so I can go any way. The cheap 3 in 1's seem to be bad news.
 

Oldsalt

Well-Known Member
#12
I have never used any of the 3 in 1 machines but their are guy's out there that swear by them and swear at them. I get the Home Shop Machinist magazine and their has been very few articles about them in the last twenty five years. I get buy with my 1946 9" South Bend lathe and the old bridgeport mill in the garage.
What do ya mean "get by"! Old South Bends an Bridgeports are great. The lathe I use most is an old Clausing 12-13 inch job built in 1952. The Monarch pictured was built in 1955.
 
#13
Cushman used to sell old machine tools to employees when the machine was replaced by a newer machine...

We have an engine lathe from 1910 and a turret lathe from the 40's, both still in service at my family's manufacturing facility...
 
#14
What do ya mean "get by"! Old South Bends an Bridgeports are great. The lathe I use most is an old Clausing 12-13 inch job built in 1952. The Monarch pictured was built in 1955.
I would never get rid of my South Bend but the bridgeport will go in my brothers shop when I find me a old Clausing benchtop mill. I found one 20 years or so ago but I could not afford the frieght from New York at the time. It was like New for $800. I can't remember the model number but it's 60's maybe. I have a old book around somewhere that has a picture of it. I'll look for it. It's similar to this Clausing mill but has a horizontal spindle and a vertical head attachament. like this Hardinge mill but a little smaller benchtop model.



 
#15
I'm getting one of the benchtop Chinese X2 mini mills for starters. They have R8 or MT3 versions and lots of bolt-ons for them. HF has one, as do other companies of the same machine. Just like the clone engines. I'm getting the R8 version. It's going to suit my needs until i decide if and what kind of big mill I need. Thanks for your help guys.

Two-Speed Variable Bench Mill/Drill Machine
 

Oldsalt

Well-Known Member
#16
yellowhand

You might like the attached pic of my G&E shaper with a 16 inch stroke. It also is a really old machine. Totally obsolete, most people believe, because vertical milling machines took over. But they are wrong...there are a lot of things that a shaper will do that can't be done any other way. The aluminum chips on the machine are a result of shaping down a big block of aluminum. It's nice to send them smokeing hot chips flying acress the shop like bullets.
 
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#18
I prefer a Bridgeport with a Prototrak attachment,either a MX2 or the newer Edge version.With this setup and a good engine Lathe, I can just about make anything for a minibike!.
 

Oldsalt

Well-Known Member
#19
I consider a 12 or 14 inch lathe as optimum for a home shop because it will not take up a lot of room, the chucks and accessories are not extremely expensive, single phase not three phase, they are not so small that they are worthless and not so big that they are a handfull to operate. There is no way to own a lathe big enough to do everything that you will run into but it is real easy to get one too small....a 9 inch is OK but be sure before you purchase that it is big enough for your use. For instance a 9 inch usually comes standard with a 3 inch 3 jaw and a 4 inch 4 jaw chucks. That will severely limit what can be done. Remember that Southbends have not been made for a lot of years so most tend to be somewhat worn. Plus South Bends have a following of old curmudgeons [like myself] that are willing to pay more for them than they are worth.
 
#20
I remember seeing a 3 in one machine in the big support trailer for the off road racer Robby Gordon down at the Baja 1000 in 1995. It looked like a very clean toy and very unused. I had a small Craftsman lathe but it was just too limiting for most jobs, so I recycled it back into the Craigslist where I bought it from. Harbor Freight just missed the turn of to the scrap yard ! I buy very little from them.
Steve :scooter:
 
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