196cc or 212 build

#1
Hey everyone! I've currently got a coleman bt200 with a 212 hemi predator on it, and a ct200 frame I want to put a bike together with. I wanted to do an engine build to go with the new bike so was wondering what the best option would be 196cc clone or a another 212 predator?

My engine budget is around $500 at most so I was thinking doing a governor removal, ARC billet flywheel, ARC con. rod, a stainless steel valve kit, #26 springs, and a 14cc cylinder head running a .10 gasket with it.

I've never built an engine before but I have wrenched on motorcycles a while and have most of the tools I need, I'm just open to suggestions on extra parts I'll need or suggested parts and advice and appreciate any help

The 196cc block is apart atm cause I wasn't using it and just wanted to practice but I could not get it to run before it was swapped with the predator but the block itself looks fine to me, there is a little 3-4 centimeter hole on the cylinder head near but it looks to be a casting flaw but I'm not sure. but if I'm switching the head ig it doesn't matter?
 
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#5
Forgot to mention I am also going to run an aftermarket cam. leaning on running something with more lower end torque cause I'll mostly run offroad and will be using a torque converter
 
#6
Flywheel and rod are important, Camshaft gets you more power less torque depending on lsa, duration and lift. A torque converter increases low end torque which can make up for the loss of low RPM Performance. Where are you getting a 14cc head? Next question is what valve kit? Are you talking about installing larger valves or just getting stock 25/24 SS valves for the 14cc head? A stock 14cc head will bump up compression but the smaller valves and ports will reduce flow a bit from a new 212 predator (either hemi or non hemi) which comes with 27/25mm valves. Are you planning on leaving on the stock carb? Head gasket thickness is dependent on the piston in the hole measurement. You need to check that on dissasembly so you know which rod length to order when getting a new billet rod. Same goes for the flywheel the hemi and non hemi and 196 all use different flywheels. (taper is different)
 
#7
Sorry I was kinda in a rush to post since I was about to head into work when posting so I left some things out.

Basically I want to go faster than my other bike but still like it to have a good amount of torque. I don't race unless just messing around, but I climb hills and occasionally jump on a highway to get around to a new riding spot. So I'd like it to run around 60 or 70 at least.

Planned on using the stock 196cc block along with a rejetted stock or stock style carb, but might switch to a mikuni later on, torque converter, not sure on gearing yet, and the flywheel and con rod swap, and there is a 14cc cylinder head on OldMiniBikes for around $35 and I planned on switching the valves, pushrods, etc into that head (says it bolts onto 196cc block) I lost a lash cap when I took off my stock cylinder head and haven't found it yet so will need a set of them too.

So should I stick with the stock cam (will it hold up to abuse and higher rpm?) or is there any anyone would suggest for higher rpm but also keeping a good amount of torque?
 

SAS289

Well-Known Member
#12
They do the job.. Our CT200U hangs in there with lots of hours of enjoying.
Its hemi CVT swapped fast.but yea inspected for cracks from time to time nothing yet..
Yes and you know people have put those 200U's through hell with that undersized fork tube and bolt with no suspension. They should have went one size up there. Tube, bearings, and bolt.
 

SAS289

Well-Known Member
#14
Check this out if you have a 200U. Forks have less travel then the EX or BT but are firmer. I may get this kit. Would be about $170 shipped for my area.

http://shopping.na3.netsuite.com/s.nl/c.3546502/sc.27/category.205219/ctype.SS/SS.205219/.f

If you watch this guys videos he has some damn good information for those new to these bikes. The most important being that you don't need huge power to get 45+ on these Colemans. He runs unopened, stage 1, governed 212's with proper gearing and a TAV and gets 45+. His 200U is an example of how to set up a fun bike that performs well without having to put 3 or $400 extra into the engine.

 
#15
Check this out if you have a 200U. Forks have less travel then the EX or BT but are firmer. I may get this kit. Would be about $170 shipped for my area.

http://shopping.na3.netsuite.com/s.nl/c.3546502/sc.27/category.205219/ctype.SS/SS.205219/.f

If you watch this guys videos he has some damn good information for those new to these bikes. The most important being that you don't need huge power to get 45+ on these Colemans. He runs unopened, stage 1, governed 212's with proper gearing and a TAV and gets 45+. His 200U is an example of how to set up a fun bike that performs well without having to put 3 or $400 extra into the engine.



I watch his video's all the time, I've got my BT200 with a 212 and a tc set up to run like his. It hits around 45 and the front end pops up if you get on the throttle too much
 
#16
For the 196cc block I think I've decided to go with the OldMiniBikes stage 3 kit, it comes with the mod 2 cam, #18 springs, stock style carb, stock length billet con rod, I'll add a billet flywheel and the 14cc cylinder head, and switch all my stock valve parts into it, that'll put me at around $350. Then I can add a sleeve for my crank and a torque converter and a few extra belts.
 

Davis

Well-Known Member
#17
For the 196cc block I think I've decided to go with the OldMiniBikes stage 3 kit, it comes with the mod 2 cam, #18 springs, stock style carb, stock length billet con rod, I'll add a billet flywheel and the 14cc cylinder head, and switch all my stock valve parts into it, that'll put me at around $350. Then I can add a sleeve for my crank and a torque converter and a few extra belts.
Not a bad set up for fun. But this 60-70mph you talk of is not even in the vicinity of that build. To get a mini bike to legitimately run those types of speeds is way past just a kit.
 
#18
Not a bad set up for fun. But this 60-70mph you talk of is not even in the vicinity of that build. To get a mini bike to legitimately run those types of speeds is way past just a kit.

So to get in that vicinity I'd have to do headwork and new piston and heavy duty valves etc probably? 60-70 was more of an estimate. pretty much I want to get into the higher rpms and feel less restricted, I think the stage 3 kit will do that for me.
 

fhpe77

Active Member
#19
Go with the SS valve kit. It's cheap insurance. Automotive split keepers secure the valves way better than the stock key slot retainer. Also, the SS valves have undercut stems and a nice finish which improves air/exhaust flow.
 

Davis

Well-Known Member
#20
Head work is a major factor yes and valve train upgrades.Also to get a tav to run that fast you’d need a pile of a motor build. And a major upgrade to your tav system. Your not gonna a achieve that with hundreds of dollars. More like thousands to do it legitimately. Also don’t forget that you have to stop the thing when you get to that level. More $.
 
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