196cc or 212 build

[Vince Meal]

Head work is a major factor yes and valve train upgrades.Also to get a tav to run that fast you’d need a pile of a motor build. And a major upgrade to your tav system. Your not gonna a achieve that with hundreds of dollars. More like thousands to do it legitimately. Also don’t forget that you have to stop the thing when you get to that level. More $.

I probably won't go into the thousands on a mini bike build, hundreds is okay but I'd rather put thousands into a real motorcycle build.

I appreciate everyone's insight. Timing and setting valve lash kinda confuses me since I've never really done any of that but I feel comfortable switching the internals I'll just have to be careful setting everything else

 

[old shed finds]

I watch his video's all the time, I've got my BT200 with a 212 and a tc set up to run like his. It hits around 45 and the front end pops up if you get on the throttle too much

Yes we have same noise and back and forth play in the fork .I like this fork idea..For now I might see if we can install brass bushings in that neck? Our bike turned out fun and just keep it as is .. With hemi and TAV were happy...

 

[Vince Meal]

Yes we have same noise and back and forth play in the fork .I like this fork idea..For now I might see if we can install brass bushings in that neck? Our bike turned out fun and just keep it as is .. With hemi and TAV were happy...

Wonder where he got those fork boots in that BWX video you posted? I'd like some for my bt200

 

[SAS289]

Not sure if they fit the BT or not.

Here's the link he left in the install vid.

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5335845805&icep_item=133029693417

 

[Rapidrob]

Plasti-gauge to set your rod bearing clearance.
Nothing wrong with the CT200 series mini bikes. Patric rides the crap out of his ( see my post and photos) and has never broken a tubing or weld.

 

[Vince Meal]

I know I need some plastigauge and some valve grinding compound anything else I'm missing?

would anyone know where to find torque specs on all the various fasteners? Redbeards garage has build videos listing the specs throughout the video but it's for a 212 predator. Not a 196cc hisun

Also one more thing if I bought a crankshaft with a 3/4 snout instead of a 3/4 sleeve would it go right in or would I need to change a seal or something? Thanks in advance!

 

[ole4]

Nr racing has the gx200 shop manual on their site tech section you can download torque specs are mostly the same

 

[SAS289]

I know I need some plastigauge and some valve grinding compound anything else I'm missing?

would anyone know where to find torque specs on all the various fasteners? Redbeards garage has build videos listing the specs throughout the video but it's for a 212 predator. Not a 196cc hisun

Also one more thing if I bought a crankshaft with a 3/4 snout instead of a 3/4 sleeve would it go right in or would I need to change a seal or something? Thanks in advance!

The 3/4" crankshaft replacement does not need different seals. For $10 more you can get a max stroke clone crankshaft if you wish. Could raise your "piston in the hole" a couple thou or so. Mine was $40 at Studzracing.com. Another nice thing about that crankshaft was I was able to use a longer bolt for the TAV drive pully. I was able to use a 2 1/2" bolt with a flat and lock washer. My other crankshaft wasn't threaded as deep.

The torque specs are in a "sticky" in this section. For the bolt I mentioned above the Comet spec is 20 ft/lbs.

 

[Vince Meal]

The 3/4" crankshaft replacement does not need different seals. For $10 more you can get a max stroke clone crankshaft if you wish. Could raise your "piston in the hole" a couple thou or so. Mine was $40 at Studzracing.com. Another nice thing about that crankshaft was I was able to use a longer bolt for the TAV drive pully. I was able to use a 2 1/2" bolt with a flat and lock washer. My other crankshaft wasn't threaded as deep.

The torque specs are in a "sticky" in this section. For the bolt I mentioned above the Comet spec is 20 ft/lbs.

Thanks! I saw a "stroker" crank on OldMiniBikes's website that was about $10 more but I didn't know if I'd have clearance issues using it, I think I'll get it instead

 

[SAS289]

Thanks! I saw a "stroker" crank on OldMiniBikes's website that was about $10 more but I didn't know if I'd have clearance issues using it, I think I'll get it instead

I originally wanted the Tillotson 196R Max Stroke Crank for $29 but it has been out of stock for quite a while. They never gave me an answer as to when these would be available.

 

[Vince Meal]

I just found two Ct200s near me. $250 for both running. I think I'll go pick them up and save my frame for a winter project. It's literally just the frame, forks and a set of wheels so a roller would save me some money instead of buying everything to turn mine into a roller frame.

 

[Vince Meal]

I originally wanted the Tillotson 196R Max Stroke Crank for $29 but it has been out of stock for quite a while. They never gave me an answer as to when these would be available.

What website was this? Studzracing.com?

 

[SAS289]

What website was this? Studzracing.com?

No. The parts supplier with the word "warehouse" in it's name. We can't put the name in posts because it will auto change. They're banned here.

 

[Vince Meal]

No. The parts supplier with the word "warehouse" in it's name. We can't put the name in posts because it will auto change. They're banned here.

I didn't know that, I was wondering why it was auto correcting on me. I thought them and this forum were associated for some reason but that doesn't matter.

I've noticed lots of parts were sold out on different sites, Probably because of quarantine I guess.

 

[Strigoi]

Not a bad set up for fun. But this 60-70mph you talk of is not even in the vicinity of that build. To get a mini bike to legitimately run those types of speeds is way past just a kit.

I'm working on one one now that I'm hoping to get a legit 70+ out of. It's probably going to be a $3,500-$4,000 build once it's all together and will have room for improvement. Going in a drag frame too so it's only going to be good for going in a straight line.

Life has put the brakes on that project for now though. Hoping it'll be ready to go by next summer.

 

[Strigoi]

? A stock 14cc head will bump up compression but the smaller valves and ports will reduce flow a bit from a new 212 predator (either hemi or non hemi) which comes with 27/25mm valves.

The non-hemi 212 comes 25/24 valves.

 

[ole4]

RTC 8 on new non hemi predators are 27/25 been that way for a while. Also they are 5mm valve stems with split keepers.

 

[Vince Meal]

I changed my mind on using a predator, hemi or non (prefer hemi so far). I'm using the stock 196cc Hisun block that came with my Bt200x, but everything besides the block Is getting switched out besides the valve components. I think I read somewhere the stock valves in the 196cc are 25 valves.

I still haven't bought anything yet. I'm trying to get the best price I can and get everything at once so I don't have to spread out a bunch of shipping fees making multiple orders.

 

[SAS289]

I changed my mind on using a predator, hemi or non (prefer hemi so far). I'm using the stock 196cc Hisun block that came with my Bt200x, but everything besides the block Is getting switched out besides the valve components. I think I read somewhere the stock valves in the 196cc are 25 valves.

I still haven't bought anything yet. I'm trying to get the best price I can and get everything at once so I don't have to spread out a bunch of shipping fees making multiple orders.

I was all over the place with orders from different suppliers. Thing is, some are special orders from a supplier that has things others don't. For example, Studzracing was the only place I found with 196 Greyhound side cover and rocker cover gaskets. Vegas carts had the forged version of the Champion rockers. And Monsterscooterparts had the sprocket I wanted at a much better price than others. Other than that I used NRracing and ARC.

By the way. If you did choose Champion rockers you may need to shim the assembly up for better geometry. I didn't use my Hisun head but did notice this. Not an issue with the Greyhound head. I would shim up with flat washers that are near identical in thickness. And the washers need to fit over the studs and be completely flat against the aluminum head. And you would need to clearance the rocker cover baffle. I used play dough for that.

https://vegascarts.com/products/champion-hd-shaft-rockers-for-gx200-212cc-6-5hp-clones

Are the Champion rockers why the Champion 196 produced more HP than the Pred and Honda?
https://www.kartpartsdepot.com/product_p/003.htm

 

[delray]

I was all over the place with orders from different suppliers. Thing is, some are special orders from a supplier that has things others don't. For example, Studzracing was the only place I found with 196 Greyhound side cover and rocker cover gaskets. Vegas carts had the forged version of the Champion rockers. And Monsterscooterparts had the sprocket I wanted at a much better price than others. Other than that I used NRracing and ARC.

By the way. If you did choose Champion rockers you may need to shim the assembly up for better geometry. I didn't use my Hisun head but did notice this. Not an issue with the Greyhound head. I would shim up with flat washers that are near identical in thickness. And the washers need to fit over the studs and be completely flat against the aluminum head. And you would need to clearance the rocker cover baffle. I used play dough for that.

https://vegascarts.com/products/champion-hd-shaft-rockers-for-gx200-212cc-6-5hp-clones

Are the Champion rockers why the Champion 196 produced more HP than the Pred and Honda?
https://www.kartpartsdepot.com/product_p/003.htm

nrracing does sell gaskets for the greyhound. when you go to there site you need to look up under stock oem parts and they will sell you the better ss narrow stem flowing valves 25/24
http://www.nrracing.com/category-s/1843.htm?searching=Y&sort=13&cat=1843&show=30&page=1