1971 Rupp Hustler - same engine as 70 Roadster?

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ruppro

Member
#1
#1
Almost done with my 71 Rupp Roadster rebuild and am moving on to a 71 Rupp Hustler. Unfortunately, the engine shroud is missing, and the engine needs parts. It looks to be the same engine as the 71 Roadster - a Tecumseh HS40. I need quite a few parts. Can I assume the engines are the same?
 
C

cfh

Well-Known Member
#3
#3
as Capgun said... but to add to that, the model number of the motor will be a bit different. for example...

Tecumseh HS40 55282b - 1970 Roadster lighted version, gray, diaphragm carb (non-angled intake)
Tecumseh HS40 55331c - 1970 Roadster lighted version, gray, diaphragm carb (non-angled intake)
Tecumseh HS40 55354c - 1971 Roaster2 lighted version, black, with angled intake
Tecumseh HS40 55355c - 1971 Hustler, black (maybe Black Widow too?), with angled intake
Tecumseh HS40 55356c - 1971 Roadster2 lighted version, black, with angled intake
Tecumseh HS40 55357c - 1970 Roadster lighted version with diaphrapm carb (non-angled intake)
Tecumseh HS40 55388c - 1972 Roadster lighted version (date code #1337c, #2032b, #2070c)
 
C

cfh

Well-Known Member
#4
#4
what i can't figure out is if the black widow and the hustler share the same HS40 motor model number. i would think the governor would be factory deleted on a black widow. but i don't really know that. in theory the motor numbers are the same?
 
capguncowboy

capguncowboy

Well-Known Member
#6
#6
cfh said:
what i can't figure out is if the black widow and the hustler share the same HS40 motor model number. i would think the governor would be factory deleted on a black widow. but i don't really know that. in theory the motor numbers are the same?
Click to expand...
Yes, they used the same engine
 
C

cfh

Well-Known Member
#7
#7
If the Hustler and the Black Widow use the same engine... who deleted the Governor? because if you're running a Dellorto carb the governor goes away. Did Rupp do that (versus tecumseh?) If it was Tecumseh, wouldn't the engine number be different? Was the governor external parts just removed? or was the internal parts kept/removed too?
 
capguncowboy

capguncowboy

Well-Known Member
#8
#8
I can't answer that question. But to add to it, they also had to remove the throttle mechanism from the engine. My guess is Rupp removed the external components but left the internal intact. I'm sure someone with a black widow could confirm
 
C

cfh

Well-Known Member
#9
#9
Yea but if that was the case, the governor would just be bouncing around inside the engine on a black widow. that can't be good. of course they sold the black widow with no air cleaner on that dellorto too, so maybe it didn't matter?
 
C

cfh

Well-Known Member
#12
#12
With that BW picture it is obvious (at least to me) that the Tecumseh HS40 on a Rupp Black Widow was "disposable". Holy crap sticks batman, but no air filter and the governor "kinda" disabled... Man they should have provided two extra motors in the same box when you bought a new Black Widow! That setup is putting pressure on the internal governor components, right? shouldn't the spring be "the other way", to relieve pressure on the internal governor components?
 
Orson_Yancey

Orson_Yancey

Member
#13
#13
I have often wondered what was the Tecumseh warranty on a Black Widow engine? I would think that Tecumseh told Rupp
"you are removing the governor at your own risk". Does anyone happen to know how high the Black Widow engine rev'ed?
Does anyone have knowledge of what percentage of the Black Widow engines threw a rod? Most people probably did not hold wide open a Black Widow for more than a fraction of a minute, even on a long straight stretch of road.
 
markus

markus

Well-Known Member
#14
#14
Orson_Yancey said:
I have often wondered what was the Tecumseh warranty on a Black Widow engine? I would think that Tecumseh told Rupp
"you are removing the governor at your own risk". Does anyone happen to know how high the Black Widow engine rev'ed?
Does anyone have knowledge of what percentage of the Black Widow engines threw a rod? Most people probably did not hold wide open a Black Widow for more than a fraction of a minute, even on a long straight stretch of road.
Click to expand...
Read the * notation at the bottom ;)
 
R

ruppking

Active Member
#15
#15
markus said:
Jim, Is that a very early in the year bike with the first version of that calendar year (Jan early Feb date code on the engine tag)? My BW was from early March, I they had already made 2 revisions with number changes by then for that particular engine o_O
Click to expand...
It is an early BW #1 201851, HS40-55330C, SERIAL 03500, This is a pretty low mileage bike as there is still a bit of the tire nubs in the center of both front and rear tires. So, yes, with the engine being made in the last days of 1970, this BW could have been made by Rupp in Jan- Feb of 1971.
I think this is the second run of BW's. I owned 2 BW's quite a few years ago that had even earlier numbers on them. But sold them without recording the numbers. Wish I had now.
 
C

cfh

Well-Known Member
#16
#16
Jim is the governor set up the same on all of the rupp black widows? That is a really hokey looking thing that rupp did!
 
R

ruppking

Active Member
#17
#17
cfh said:
Jim is the governor set up the same on all of the rupp black widows? That is a really hokey looking thing that rupp did!
Click to expand...
I have seen them with and without the spring attached. They usually have the long arm of the governor removed and the small arm and spring on the throttle mechanism removed as well.
 
markus

markus

Well-Known Member
#18
#18
ruppking said:
It is an early BW #1 201851, HS40-55330C, SERIAL 03500, This is a pretty low mileage bike as there is still a bit of the tire nubs in the center of both front and rear tires. So, yes, with the engine being made in the last days of 1970, this BW could have been made by Rupp in Jan- Feb of 1971.
I think this is the second run of BW's. I owned 2 BW's quite a few years ago that had even earlier numbers on them. But sold them without recording the numbers. Wish I had now.
Click to expand...

Thanks! thats very cool that its has that date. Thats actually the first time I have seen the black engined bikes dated coded pre 1970 I have seen them marked like first week of etc.. which I was always surprised that they were right on the money for year changes. I have an old copy of a Rupp newsletter somewhere that was from first of that year that had stated that the new lineup was in showrooms now so I guess there was not much overlap.

I haven't personally seen that number you have go past January, but that doesn't mean anything. Theres another version that shows as coming with a diaphragm carb still from the Tec factory but with some other little revisions (I think rivets instead of screws on the throttle mech, and stuff like that) which I have scribbled down with an early march date. and then the 55c which was the revision to slanted intake and bowl carb for the most part If I am not mistaken for the non lighted HS40s. Pretty sure you could find the 87C later/end of year just like the the Roadster's lighted 88C's did. My BW was 1 2032** with a first week of march built 55C on it.

Its an easy way to spot a faked or messed with BW, Usually when someone clones one they don't put a throttle assembly on ;)
 
markus

markus

Well-Known Member
#19
#19
cfh said:
as Capgun said... but to add to that, the model number of the motor will be a bit different. for example...

Tecumseh HS40 55282b - 1970 Roadster lighted version, gray, diaphragm carb (non-angled intake)
Tecumseh HS40 55331c - 1970 Roadster lighted version, gray, diaphragm carb (non-angled intake)
Tecumseh HS40 55354c - 1971 Roaster2 lighted version, black, with angled intake
Tecumseh HS40 55355c - 1971 Hustler, black (maybe Black Widow too?), with angled intake
Tecumseh HS40 55356c - 1971 Roadster2 lighted version, black, with angled intake
Tecumseh HS40 55357c - 1970 Roadster lighted version with diaphrapm carb (non-angled intake)
Tecumseh HS40 55388c - 1972 Roadster lighted version (date code #1337c, #2032b, #2070c)
Click to expand...

2 of those engine were never used on Rupps originally. The 54c is a standard length bushing shafted engine, and the 57c is a non lighted extended bushing shaft off an MTD.
 
J

Joe51

#20
#20
I also see that the throttle mechanism on the BW above is the screw on version. At what point did they convert to the rivet version? I have a late 1970 Lil Indian HS40 that was screwed on as well so to me it does make sense that this is a very early BW.
 
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