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Ding Ding

Ding Ding

Well-Known Member
#163
#163
There is much more maintenance on snowmobiles compared to mini bikes, which may have something to do with there being more literature available. And since AC was well established snowmobile manufacturer, providing owners manuals is something that was standard for them. At least that's my assumption.
 
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dwadholm

Member
#164
#164
Ding Ding said:
There is much more maintenance on snowmobiles compared to mini bikes, which may have something to do with there being more literature available. And since AC was well established snowmobile manufacturer, providing owners manuals is something that was standard for them. At least that's my assumption.
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I hear ya. I just mean to say that the copyright has expired on them (otherwise people like Arctic Restorations wouldn't be able to copy and sell them).

You'd think guys would post them up where available.
 
ArcticMinibike

ArcticMinibike

Member
#165
#165
I've spent hundreds of dollars on Arctic minibike manuals... Makes it tough to just throw it out there for free. That being said, I have considered doing it. The crazy prices for Arctic minibike manuals would drop like a rock.

I'm always willing to send a page or two with exploded drawings. I've also posted Saxonette carb and timing instructions here on the forum, straight from the service manual.

I bet that guy with the box of SSSCAT-II manuals still has one. Remember his name Ding Ding?
 
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dwadholm

Member
#166
#166
ArcticMinibike said:
I've spent hundreds of dollars on Arctic minibike manuals... Makes it tough to just throw it out there for free. That being said, I have considered doing it. The crazy prices for Arctic minibike manuals would drop like a rock.

I'm always willing to send a page or two with exploded drawings. I've also posted Saxonette carb and timing instructions here on the forum, straight from the service manual.
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I understand your resistance. I hope you don't think I was asking you to post all of your manuals. I think it is more of a community thing. If someone has one, post it up. I bet when you needed one you wish it was available at the click of a button. Especially since the content is not protected anymore and not owned by anyone. All it takes is for a few people to post one or two and pretty soon you have a whole page full.

Believe me, I am not against commerce (I'm a startup business consultant). People still sell Polaris Manuals online and on eBay even through they are available free everywhere on the web. I even bought one as a pdf for $5.00 before I knew about the database.

I think the availability of service manuals only encourages other people to get into and stay into minibikes and that helps everyone. You'd think places like Arctic Restorations would be giving away the manuals because it would probably trigger people to buy more of their NOS stuff...
 
ArcticMinibike

ArcticMinibike

Member
#168
#168
I sell high quality copies, but I scan them at high resolution and digitally remaster them, removing any blemishes in Photoshop. It takes about 15-20 hours depending on the size of the book. If I paid myself for the labor, I'd lose a ton of money.
 
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dwadholm

Member
#170
#170
I think you are missing the point.

I don't think people are looking for coffee table book quality...they just want the information. The Polaris Service Manual I mentioned has been 3 hole punched and several pages have the guy's greasy thumb print on the margins. However, I have used that book more times than I can count...plus I've posted pages upon pages of it on SnowmobileForum.com to help other people with their sleds.

Maybe some guys want a high quality manual and will pay for a paper copy but I am talking about taking 5 minutes to scan it in at 300 dpi and post it up on google docs with a link.

Maybe I'm in the wrong here...
 
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dwadholm

Member
#172
#172
ArcticMinibike said:
I totally know what you're saying, the sad fact is that people just aren't willing to invest lots of money and then give it away. It may be due to the rare nature of Arctic bikes. I'd be curious if the same issue exists for more prevalent brands like Rupp.
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Well, maybe I should be the first. I'd be willing to spend $20.00 on a Climber manual and a SSSCAT II manual and post them up for others. It's no skin off my back. I've spent $20 on dumber things...

I don't think any less of you for your position either. Again, it's not about asking one person to bear the brunt of the cost. It's about everyone sharing the information they have to build the community.
 
Ding Ding

Ding Ding

Well-Known Member
#173
#173
ArcticMinibike said:
I totally know what you're saying, the sad fact is that people just aren't willing to invest lots of money and then give it away. It may be due to the rare nature of Arctic bikes. I'd be curious if the same issue exists for more prevalent brands like Rupp.
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BlackwidowMotorsports has parts catalogs from 66-72 posted on his website for any and all to see. But, he is also the main parts guy so it's only helping his business in parts sales.
 
ArcticMinibike

ArcticMinibike

Member
#174
#174
I hope I don't sound like a jerk. I've always been willing to provide whatever info someone needs or answer any questions. I'm all about keeping Arctic bikes in one piece and running. Someone is parting out a working bike on eBay right now and that really bothers me.

I've just been taken advantage of on manuals before. Paying $50 for a manual and spending 20 hours to remaster it, only to see someone resell it for profit kind of soured me. I also don't upload pictures here anymore since they become the property of OldMiniBikes and I am unable to remove them if usage is being abused. I host them on my Web server and link to them. I know that loss of picture control here bugs a lot of members. I also started watermarking pics I share.

One of these days I may post them all on my site, but in a controlled way. I'm just trying to cover my costs, not make money.

Web site hosting is very expensive.
 
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dwadholm

Member
#175
#175
You don't sound like a jerk.

There is a just a different "cultural norm" within the mini Bike community. It's more of an insider thing. You can see it with the "clans" in signatures, purists vs runner, Tec vs Briggs vs Clones...

The thing is nobody owns the information in manuals anymore...it is now "in the public domain". Charging for a clean fine print hard copy makes sense. You are paying for the ink, paper & time. Also, paying for an original makes sense.

But trying to maintain ownership of the information just doesn't make sense. It could be hosted free on Google drive, mediafire, scribbed etc.
 
Ding Ding

Ding Ding

Well-Known Member
#176
#176
I wouldn't go as far as saying anyone is trying to maintain ownership of the information, they're just trying to make a buck as you know.

The information is available for free, just not on Google. Perhaps it's part of the mystique and desirability of these old machines. If everything was readily available and for free, some of that mystique would be gone. You want the information within 1 click, you pay the price. If you want that information for free, you might have to spend countless hours searching, networking, and befriending those that are so passionate about preserving it. Part of my attraction to mini bikes is that they are somewhat rare, and are somewhat difficult to find. Granted, we're talking about parts diagrams from a fairly large manufacturer of them, but it still applies.

my $.02
 
ArcticMinibike

ArcticMinibike

Member
#177
#177
Ding Ding said:
... you might have to spend countless hours searching, networking, and befriending...
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Ding Ding Ding! (no pun intended, lol). I agree, I'm not trying to maintain ownership of the information, but I do want to maintain ownership of my value-added work and cover my expenses.

I remember being frustrated when I started that nobody had posted all the literature out there. It took many years, lots of relationship building, lots of eBay money, lots of searching, all so that I could collect the information for my site to share it with others. More than once I tried to get a seller to come down to a reasonable price, explaining that I was compiling this for historical purposes and to help people, not as an investment for personal gain. Every one of them refused to budge. It was all about the cash for them. $40 for a 4-page parts list and diagram is robbery.

My goal was to make it available to others so they didn't have to suffer the same frustration. That's why I'm always willing to provide the info or occasional page for free. Eventually I hope to make it all free.

I'm kind of stuck on both sides of the fence. It's like a toll road. It took a lot of money and time to build it. For a nominal fee you can access it. Once the costs have been recouped, it can be free to everyone. Unfortunately I'm just not there yet. Even public museums charge admission to cover operating expenses. Free is my goal. I'm working hard to get there, but if everything showed up online tomorrow, I might be sunk.

BTW, note that what Arctic Restoration is providing for $10 is a $2 copy of the 4 page parts list, not the owners manuals.
 
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