charge coil, i got one, but what about regulator/rectifier?

[gran_pann]

Hi all,

Ive got one of those ebay electric start kits for my honda gx340, and im familiar with wiring up the larger honda gx620's and high amperage charging systems.... but this has me stumped.

Whats up with this one wire charge coil?
ELECTRIC START KIT FLYWHEEL STARTER MOTOR INGNITION HONDA GX340 11HP GX390 13HP | eBay


So since its one coil, I'm assuming its 3-5amps (probably 3 since its cheap).

Im no electrical expert, but i know that battery (-) goes to ground, heavy gauge wire, battery (+) goes heavy gage to solenoid, and two hot wires for the key switch go from solenoid bolt to solenoid spade connector.

Now when i hook up this charge coil, im assuming its automatically grounded, so that takes care of the (-) and the (+) would be directly wired to the battery(+), or the bolt on solenoid.... and thats got me thinking.

What if it overcharges the battery if im running no lights or anything else?

What options do i have out there for a regulator, or regulator rectifier? I cannot for the life of me find any regulator/rectifier that is for such a small amperage charge coil.

 

[TheDullCarbide]

Whatever you do, don't hook the coil directly to the battery. Charging coils are AC, batteries are DC yada yada yada...

I would think the regulator is inside the switchbox. Did you see this?

View attachment 99533

 

[gran_pann]

Whatever you do, don't hook the coil directly to the battery. Charging coils are AC, batteries are DC yada yada yada...

I would think the regulator is inside the switchbox. Did you see this?

View attachment 99533

attachment didnt work. Ill check in the switchbox when it arrives.

 

[TheDullCarbide]

Sorry, forgot the gallery didn't work.

 

[FirePowerMinis]

 

[TheDullCarbide]

View attachment 99555

Nice. That's the one. This diagram tells me the coil plugs into a plug coming out of the keyswitch box.

 

[Inventorpardue]

The charge coil feeds the Anode (+ or non-striped end) of a half wave rectifier diode. The Cathode (- or striped end) of the rectifier diode connects to the + terminal of the battery.

Like this https://www.OldMiniBikes.com/search.php?search_query=honda rectifier&section=product

Jon



The diode converts AC from the charge coil into DC for battery charging. Like you said, with maybe 3 to 5 Amps output, the battery is the Voltage regulator. On a super long ride it might heat up a small battery, say 5 Amp hour sized. A 12 Amp hour battery would probably do OK.

 

[TheDullCarbide]

The charge coil feeds the Anode (+ or non-striped end) of a half wave rectifier diode. The Cathode (- or striped end) of the rectifier diode connects to the + terminal of the battery.

Like this https://www.OldMiniBikes.com/search.php?search_query=honda rectifier§ion=product

Jon



The diode converts AC from the charge coil into DC for battery charging. Like you said, with maybe 3 to 5 Amps output, the battery is the Voltage regulator. On a super long ride it might heat up a small battery, say 5 Amp hour sized. A 12 Amp hour battery would probably do OK.

So there's really no regulator, just a rectifier? Guess it works for Honda. Hell I would never put a system like that on my machines, being an electronics enthusiast.

And being that there's no regulator, how safe is it for the battery to rev with a system like this?

 

[balljoint]

A bridge rectifier converts a/c wave to d/c wave ,your output should be around 14vdc, you do not need to even run a battery if you do not need electric start,I had an old mini bike that the lights would dim a idle an get bright when you got going. you can always wire in a a/c to d/c regulator ,most old styles are big due to use of finned heatsinks if you want to charge a battery for use with electric start

 

[creia]

So there's really no regulator, just a rectifier? Guess it works for Honda. Hell I would never put a system like that on my machines, being an electronics enthusiast.

And being that there's no regulator, how safe is it for the battery to rev with a system like this?

Remember the Honda "Trail" 90's and 110's? (I have owned 2 of them) That is exactly what they did on the MILLIONS of them they manufacured from the mid 1960s through the late 1990's and they worked pretty good. The battery acted as the "voltage regulator" of sorts.
Michael

 

[TheDullCarbide]

Remember the Honda "Trail" 90's and 110's? (I have owned 2 of them) That is exactly what they did on the MILLIONS of them they manufacured from the mid 1960s through the late 1990's and they worked pretty good. The battery acted as the "voltage regulator" of sorts.
Michael

Sure, I'm not bashing the system, it obviously works. Just saying I would design something better to put on my vehicles. Perfectionism to the max.

 

[Inventorpardue]

So there's really no regulator, just a rectifier? Guess it works for Honda. Hell I would never put a system like that on my machines, being an electronics enthusiast.

And being that there's no regulator, how safe is it for the battery to rev with a system like this?

Safe enough: over 65 million C70 Honda Cub/Passport motorcycles have this exact battery-regulated charging system. Not saying its ideal or even defending the design. Fact is, charge coil output is so slight it never catches up to the 11 Amp hour battery used on those bikes. My reply was directed to answer the Honda diagram posted in the thread. Snapper and many other manufacturers used a single diode like this as well with engines from Briggs and Stratton and Tecumseh.

A half wave rectifier/regulator is what want instead, nothing wrong with that.

 

[LilasCook]

Hi....the rectifier is a bunch of power diodes that convert the 3-stage AC alternator yield to a type of DC to charge the battery and power the bicycle's electrical parts.

The controller controls the alternator output. It does this by fueling the alternator field loop when the battery voltage is low, and not driving it when the battery voltage is sufficiently high: it switches the field curl power on and off more than once a few times each subsequent when everything is great and the battery is charged. The field loop takes a lot of power.

The rectifier is associated straightforwardly (no breaker) to the alternator stator curl wires, a decent ground, and to the battery "+" terminal. The diodes will just permit ability to go into the battery, not out from it.

The controller couldn't say whether the motor is running. With a halted motor, the alternator can not make power and the battery voltage will drop if any heap is associated. The controller will at that point normally turn on the field curl and since there's no force being made to raise the battery voltage, it will remain turned on (and channel your battery). The stock controller has three terminals: BAT, GND, FIELD. The BAT is power in, used to both measure the voltage for choosing if the field ought to be turned on, and to control the field curl. GND is obviously ground, expected to quantify the battery voltage. FIELD is to the field loop.