Comparing 2 bikes similar build

[toomanytoys]

2 bikes. Both currently stage 1 and properly jetted. Same torque convertors (China blackhorse from amazon)

Megamoto 212 pro with a 196 hisun 10/53gearing

Coleman ct200u with a non hemi predator 10/50 gearing

The Coleman flat out rips. It wheelies on demand, if you try to hold the bike back it will stand up. I have climbed some super impressive hills on the trails with it.

Megamoto feels super sluggish. You can physically hold the bike back with your feet on the ground. I can't even make the front end light let alone flip the bike over like I can the coleman.

In a short Drag race the coleman out accelerates it no problem, by a couple lengths.

Using the gearing calculator I am physically running the full potential of the rpm. 3600 rpm at xxx speed matches a gearing calculator.

What's the problem?

I switched torque convertors between the two bikes. No change.

The obvious one of the predator vs clone.

The megamoto is a heavier bike.

I am pretty disappointed in my build so far....! I was super excited to score this frame and start a build on it.

I ordered a yellow spring and a 9 tooth sprocket to drop the gearing down hoping it will give me that low end pull that I want.

I dont care about going 40mph. I ride at less than 25mph 90% of the time of the trails.

 

[desert rat]

What is the difference in intake dia. and are both carbs opening 100%? I have heard that some carbs in stock configuration will only open to 80%.

 

[toomanytoys]

What is the difference in intake dia. and are both carbs opening 100%? I have heard that some carbs in stock configuration will only open to 80%.

I have not verified this. I'll take a look to see if it's opening 100%. I just looked at the coleman and it's opening 100%. The megamoto is outside under a tarp and it's 5am.

This is a great thought that I never thought to verify!

This has me a bit confused. The clone has about 30 hours of minibike use on it stock before I pulled it off and installed the predator. It originally was a 5/8" crank model. Maybe I need to verify valve lash as well.

 

[SAS289]

Are you just seeing the torque advantage the 212 has over the 196? Lighter bike bigger engine will be faster.

 

[toomanytoys]

Are you just seeing the torque advantage the 212 has over the 196? Lighter bike bigger engine will be faster.

That's possible! It just feels so incredibly drastic. I can put my feet on the ground. Grab the bars and throttle the bike and I can hold it back. There is no hope of doing this with the coleman it will flat out drag me or flip the bike over.

If this is the case I will be getting rid of the 196 and going with a tillotson 212 and building that instead.

I am going to verify the throttle plate opening fully. This does make sense to me and I'm not sure why I didn't look.

 

[toomanytoys]

Throttle opens fully. Going to drop to a 8 or 9 tooth in the front and see if that helps out. Might just be the weight issue.

According to what I found on the internet it's 40lbs heavier. Doesn't seem like a lot. But when we are talking in such small hp per lb could make the difference

Edit. Sprockets came in tonight 8 tooth and a 9 tooth. 8 tooth made a huge difference. Not as visceral as the coleman but now it accelerates and pulls nicely. I didn't get to drag race them as no second rider.

Going to order a 60 tooth rear and get rid of that 8 tooth. It's so thin I'm afraid it's gonna break.

It'll now spin the rear tire if i hold the front brake instead of just stalling.

 

[desert rat]

There you go. I can't even think about what a chain looks like on a 8 tooth, that's tiny.

 

[toomanytoys]

It's comical....

I ordered the 60 tooth. Go 9/60 and the gearing is darn close.

 

[SAS289]

That should work great on the trails.

I never topped my bike out yet but with a TAV, 9/60, and a yellow spring in the driven I get to around 4500 RPM before the belt shifts under full throttle. My 196 should top out around 5K RPM or so.

 

[toomanytoys]

That should work great on the trails.

I never topped my bike out yet but with a TAV, 9/60, and a yellow spring in the driven I get to around 4500 RPM before the belt shifts under full throttle. My 196 should top out around 5K RPM or so.

I have a yellow spring to go in. This weekend I am going to get the yellow spring in and if ups doesn't screw me I'll have my 60t sprocket

 

[Strigoi]

Are you just seeing the torque advantage the 212 has over the 196? Lighter bike bigger engine will be faster.

The 196cc engine has a higher torque rating than the 212 Predator. Both are rated at 6.5hp. The Predator is rated at 8.1 ft.lbs and the 196cc is rated at 9.8 ft.lbs.

 

[toomanytoys]

Added something new today.

I had a spare ruxing carb from a predator. Put the .038 jet in and threw it on the clone. Holy crap it made a difference. It'll now loft the front end with ease from just rolling on the throttle.

Also afterwards I put the 9/60 gearing on it and the yellow spring. PERFECT!!

Now of my flywheel would just come in I could finish this pig. Next purchase will be a juggernaut and a 24mm mikuni.

 

[Strigoi]

Next purchase will be a juggernaut and a 24mm mikuni.

Are you going to be running a bigger cam? The 24mm Mikuni flat slide is overkill if you aren't.

I'm running a hot .265 cam and have some porting done on one of my 212s and the 24mm Mikuni flat slide works great with it. Probably one of the best things I've bought for that engine.

The Juggernaut might not be worth it. I'm running one and didn't really notice any difference. This is on an engine that should be around 17hp that's spinning 7,000 rpm. A friend has a very similar build to mine and actually went back to the stock Comet driver after installing the Juggernaut. He said the stock driver worked better with his setup. I'm not trying to dissuade you from buying one, just don't think you'll necessarily see some huge difference with it. When him and I race, it all comes down to who gets the launch. We're running 60mph in under 600' with our bikes.

 

[red baron]

On my little bike in my avatar the smallest variation make a huge difference on how it performs.
Tire air pressure as small as few psi makes a huge difference especially where I'm heavy. Glad you got it performing well.

 

[toomanytoys]

Are you going to be running a bigger cam? The 24mm Mikuni flat slide is overkill if you aren't.

I'm running a hot .265 cam and have some porting done on one of my 212s and the 24mm Mikuni flat slide works great with it. Probably one of the best things I've bought for that engine.

The Juggernaut might not be worth it. I'm running one and didn't really notice any difference. This is on an engine that should be around 17hp that's spinning 7,000 rpm. A friend has a very similar build to mine and actually went back to the stock Comet driver after installing the Juggernaut. He said the stock driver worked better with his setup. I'm not trying to dissuade you from buying one, just don't think you'll necessarily see some huge difference with it. When him and I race, it all comes down to who gets the launch. We're running 60mph in under 600' with our bikes.

I have a .265 cam billet rod flywheel and 22lb springs. I'm going to play a bit and upgrade as I go. Trying see what mods or variations make a difference.

I'm wanting trail bikes not a drag rice bike. I'm probably over building at this point.

I'm going to play with it a bit with the China TAV. I want to see its limits

 

[toomanytoys]

On my little bike in my avatar the smallest variation make a huge difference on how it performs.
Tire air pressure as small as few psi makes a huge difference especially where I'm heavy. Glad you got it performing well.

I can definitely see this. The Coleman still has more grunt but i think now any difference is stemming from bike size. It feels real good now. Soon I'm going to upgrade the rest of the engine and let her open up.

 

[Strigoi]

I have a .265 cam billet rod flywheel and 22lb springs. I'm going to play a bit and upgrade as I go. Trying see what mods or variations make a difference.

I'm wanting trail bikes not a drag rice bike. I'm probably over building at this point.

I'm going to play with it a bit with the China TAV. I want to see its limits

You'll have yourself a stout little engine with some grunt with those mods done.

My bike with that setup is street/drag and running a 53t rear sprocket with a 15" tire. I'd like to go smaller on the rear sprocket as it likes to wheelie too easily with how it's currently set up. A 53t is as low as I can go with the adapter and split sprockets. Going with a live axle setup is not out of the question with it and lowering the bike would help too.