Confused about engine power

#1
So I have a 6.5 clone engine on my mini and there is a hill that I want to be able to climb. I converted to a torque converter and got a great deal more climbing power but I still cant pull this hill.

If I jet the carb, add a header pipe and muffler and a hi flow air cleaner, will that get me more climbing power without removing the governor?

The top end speed is fine the way it is, I just want more climbing power.

I'm confused about whether higher rpms are required for more torque?

I am trying not to remove the governor to keep the mini as safe as possible because I ride my 4 year old son around a good bit.

Please note that I am not asking about removing the governor, I am trying to find out how to get more climbing power without removing it and also trying to understand the theory behind engine power.
 

Neck

Growing up is optional
#2
With the TAV you gained overdrive along with better out of the hole pulling power, gear down for more torque multiplication, or, better climbing ability. Simply put, install bigger back sprocket on it.
 
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matt2

New Member
#3
You know I like the power I got with the air cleaner, exhaust, new .036 jet and make sure you do the 140 emultion tube. Don't mess with the governor. I'm a big guy and I could feel the power difference. good luck
 
#4
So I have a 6.5 clone engine on my mini and there is a hill that I want to be able to climb. I converted to a torque converter and got a great deal more climbing power but I still cant pull this hill.

If I jet the carb, add a header pipe and muffler and a hi flow air cleaner, will that get me more climbing power without removing the governor?

The top end speed is fine the way it is, I just want more climbing power.

I'm confused about whether higher rpms are required for more torque?

I am trying not to remove the governor to keep the mini as safe as possible because I ride my 4 year old son around a good bit.

Please note that I am not asking about removing the governor, I am trying to find out how to get more climbing power without removing it and also trying to understand the theory behind engine power.
The comet yellow spring will improve tune the clutch so it can climb more.
See the instructions in your TAV kit and follow them to adjust your stock spring first.
That may be all you need....
This is the yellow spring.
Comet Yellow Torsion Spring : Go Karts Parts: Racing Kart Parts: Engines: Frames: Tires: Versailles, Ohio: USA: Indoor Track: Tips: Chassis: Kits: GoKart: Briggs: Yerf Dog: Manco: Comet: Torque

There is room to improve the engine.
Shop around the local small engine shops for a Honda clone 14cc head.
This head is used on most 5.5 hp clones and its a direct bolt on for the 6.5.
It will significantly raise compression and improve the way the engine runs at all speeds, but you will feel it most at lower rpm.
Here are a couple of 14cc heads.
See the chamber is smaller.
I know it does not seem like much but it makes a difference you can feel at all rpm.

Matt2 made mention of a jet change...
I would agree its probably worth your while to move up a jet size on the main.
But I would try that first alone before I change the etube.
If you add a small cheap header ( or make one using your old mufler ) then you will need to rejet for sure and possibly need the etube as well.
A lot depends on the airfilter too if you decide to add that.


Some will tell you there is nothing to be gained from adding simple race parts like the jets, a higher compression head, header and filter.
That's just not true.
All these things will make a modest improvement in even a governed clone.
They all compliment each other and are not expensive.
And they will not change the way the engines runs.
They may even improve starting and operation.

Try tuning the clutch first.
Then add the speed parts ( 25 dollars for a used 14cc head is very reasonable to me. that's usually the easiest thing to find locally. )

Oh ya ratio change will improve low speed hill climbing torque.
Maybe that's all you really need?
Is it fast enough or maybe even a little too fast right now?
Could be you need to slow the bike down since going to a TAV often increases the top end more than some like.

Here's what those simple speed parts can do with a heavy bike like a 165.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqYoubPwzXo
 
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james c

Active Member
#5
check the torque converter driven unit size, if all possible, use a 7" driven instead of the usual 6" driven. that would make a huge difference
 
#6
check the torque converter driven unit size, if all possible, use a 7" driven instead of the usual 6" driven. that would make a huge difference
You can't just swap a 7 on a TAV system.
There are no belts to fit that configuration.
You possibly could slot the holes on the back plate to make up for mismatch and move the pack plate further back with the 90 or 91 belt but I am not aware of anyone that has done this.

Here I am using a 7 inch but this a completely different set up using the Yerfdog 3206 jack shaft assembly.
This requires a lot of modifications and the bigger secondary will be closer to the ground.


Here is the 3206 jack shaft in its natural habitat ( on the rear of 3206 kart ).

This is a good picture to give you an idea how much the 7 inch hangs bellow a frame rail without an angle mount.
This could be big trouble on a small tyre mini.
 
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#7
Jeff, It sounds like your hung up on removing the governor... That in itself will give you no advantage to torque..... When you are climbing that hill at anything less then top speed your throttle is already wide open even with the governor intact, removing it will have -0- effect in trying to climb anything at less then full throttle.... Gearing is the only way to increase your climbing ability without over revving your engine and/or climbing that hill at less then full topend speed....

Patch
 

james c

Active Member
#9
you dont mention what kind of bike or what torque converter setup you have used, maybe that will help with any recommendations we can make. but "IF POSSIBLE" change your driven
 
#10
Wow, thats some great info. So far I have added a free flow air filter, I put the bigger jet in the carb and I am waiting for the header and muffler to get here.
 
#13
I have the TC2 torque converter from gokarts USA installed on a Baja MB 165. I know it's not a classic bike, but we have a good time on it.

I am trying to get our Dart Ridge Runner back right now, but we're having fun with this until then.
 
#14
Ok, adding the e-tube and now looking for a 60 tooth sprocket for the rear, not having much luck finding one though. Is this something that I am going to have to mod from another sprocket?
 
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