El Tigre: Made by American or Bird?

#1
Picked up the El Tigre yesterday and did a very quick strip to see how the chrome was (ain't bad at all). Been looking at photos and mine has very little rake in the neck as opposed to the one Cheezy posted. No front end damage at all on my bike. Karl's bike is similar to mine. So, which is it? American or Bird?
 

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markus

Well-Known Member
#3
Thats one made by American, I was trying find the actual american brochure but cant find it offhand, I think in 1969 though (like the one you have) they were just being distributed through maverick and briefly pennies as the foremost bike.

nothing to do with bird, I want to say they were a California company
 
#4
I pm'd Chipper but Markus's response matches what I found searching the forum archives. There was a post/interview by/of a former employee of American talking about the loss of the contract and the company closing. Bird apparently took over producing the bike and I guess gave the neck the rake. My bike had the "shadow" of a round decal on the fork plate, so it might have been a JCPenny Foremost model. American apparently produced the bikes for just 6 months in 69.

Have to click a best answer, but I declare a tie.
 

markus

Well-Known Member
#5
. Bird apparently took over producing the bike and I guess gave the neck the rake. My bike had the "shadow" of a round decal on the fork plate, so it might have been a JCPenny Foremost model. American apparently produced the bikes for just 6 months in 69.
If you are refering to the rake of your frame, that is because its bent out of shape at the toprail, maybe from hitting something (the forks were stronger than the frames on those) but it almost looks discolored like from heating maybe they were trying to squeeze a larger 5hp in it or something Probably not a very safe ride the way it is. Bird made "el tigre's" were nothing like that model in any way shape or forum.
 
#6
Karl's bike has the same curvature in the top rails and the funky rake. The discoloration is from the chrome...no signs of obvious damage and the welds are pristine. The fork tubes are perfectly straight and they should have shown something from a hit. The only way I know to fix it is to cut the top rails and re notch. That's why I was seeking opinions about the origins.
 
#7
Pete.. after looking at the pic it looks like the bike was built that way....but thats like what maybe 5 degrees of rake ? Its hard to believe they would build that bike with hardly no rake.

 
#9
OND...I think you're right. It's about 5 deg. I'm going to put a gage on it tomorrow and measure it. It really looks weird...somebody called these bikes ugly, and this is why.
 
#12
Yep, I agree. Those top rails are bent. Just because Karl's is the same only means that both bikes ran into something. You can find two or more other brand bikes with the same front end damage but it doesn't mean they were built that way. I think because of that frame design when the bike hits the wall the frame begins to pivot on the swing mount, then the weight of the rider keeps the top part of the frame in motion and the top rails become the weak point and bend. Stellar Black Beauty's have a similar problem.


 
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#13
Interesting for sure , I pm'd Pete back this morning before i read the thread , lol ! I told him Markus or Simple Tom would know way more than my rookie ass :laugh:
 
#14
Yep, I agree. Those top rails are bent. Just because Karl's is the same only means that both bikes ran into something. You can find two or more other brand bikes with the same front end damage but it doesn't mean they were built that way. I think because of that frame design when the bike hits the wall the frame begins to pivot on the swing mount, then the weight of the rider keeps the top part of the frame in motion and the top rails become the weak point and bend. Stellar Black Beauty's have a similar problem.


But if the top bars where bent as in the first pic and you staightened them, wouldn't you have less rake ? Looks like to me that the bars would need to be bent more, or as Pete suggested shorten them.
Maybe bent at the top bars and bottom bars to ? That would be one hard hit forsure.
 
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#15
Thanks to all for weighing in. I'm going over to my welder this morning and we are going to discuss how to correct the rake. There's no way I can notch those tubes at home and have them right, and he does complex ornamental iron so he's got the right stuff. Simple Tom's onto something...the physics would explain why the fork lowers have no damage--the body mass inertia is distributed along the top rails.
 

capguncowboy

Well-Known Member
#16
But if the top bars where bent as in the first pic and you staightened them, wouldn't you have less rake ? Looks like to me that the bars would need to be bent more, or as Pete suggested shorten them.
Maybe bent at the top bars and bottom bars to ? That would be one hard hit forsure.
Not if it bent the lower tubes inward as well, which i think is what happened
 
#17
Yep, they are a mess. I went to see John (my welder) and he's going to fix the rake angle. We lined it up on his welding table, and the rake was so far off the rear of the upper section of the frame touches the lower rear of the frame. He's going to cut the upper, sister a section in and reset the rake to about 30 degrees. 30 degrees puts the centerline of the front and rear axle mounts on the same plane. I was hoping to keep this a complete survivor-style bike, but safety is going to have to take precedence.
 
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