Fat Tony157's - Wards/Gilson - (Vintage Open)

#21
Look at image *113243. See the flanges at the top and bottom--what I called hourglass shape--none of my bikes have that as the bushing drives into the main neck tube.



If it is an Allis frame, then I think there is a serial # on the swing arm on recoil starter side of frame. The first two digits give the year of manufacture. Gilson otherwise had an aluminum tab with serial number that was on the lower tree and flimsy tabs held it in place (usually it's missing).
Doc the Flanges you are referring to are the bearing races out of the Pocket Bike that the fork came off of. He took the original bushings out and installed the pocket bike bearing races. Go back and look at the pic. Top pic is the factory bushings he removed and the bottom pic are the new style races. Same races that a bicycle uses..... Just stamped sheet metal. Same races and bearings in my Warrior.
 
#22
Doc the Flanges you are referring to are the bearing races out of the Pocket Bike that the fork came off of. He took the original bushings out and installed the pocket bike bearing races. Go back and look at the pic. Top pic is the factory bushings he removed and the bottom pic are the new style races. Same races that a bicycle uses..... Just stamped sheet metal. Same races and bearings in my Warrior.
Went back and looked...the orange color of them made me think they were part of the original Gilson frame. Thanks for correcting me!:thumbsup:
 
#23
Went back and looked...the orange color of them made me think they were part of the original Gilson frame. Thanks for correcting me!:thumbsup:
Yea they really do look original. Definitely not a bad thing.

Made a little progress tonight and whipped up a new caliper bracket for the front disc brake. The original bracket was meant for another pit bike I had in the past and didn't match up to the X19 mounting points. Should work nicely.







 
#26
Thanks guys!


Made a little progress today. I built the rear swing arm mount. The tube I welded the tabs to will eventually be welded solid to the outer plates. Before I can do that though, I need to decide if I am doing a jack shaft with a centrifugal clutch, or a torque converter without a jack shaft. The angle needs to be right so the chain isn't slapping into the metal tube all the time.








I also grabbed this gas tank for really cheap off of ebay the other day. It should fit well on the frame. If not though, it was only a few bucks.

 
#28
It's been awhile since my last update, mostly because I haven't really done much on it lol. I've been mostly just accumulating parts in the past couple weeks. I'll try to keep up with it going forward.

I made a big change of plans and decided to steer away from the intek briggs build. My biggest concern is the crankshaft is only supported by a ball bearing on one side, and the other side is just a bushing. An actual animal block would have bearings in both sides. If I had to guess, that will be the weak point of the engine. If I am going to invest decent money into a engine, I would hate to have it fail prematurely.

What I decided on doing is a fully built predator instead. I know it's not all that original, but there are so many parts and the prices on everything seems to be way more reasonable compared to animal stuff. This motor came bolted to a DB30 I bought a few days ago, and only had a few hours run time. I yanked the engine off, bolted on an old 3.5hp flat head briggs and resold it for what I paid for it a couple days later. Who doesn't love a free engine? I'll start ordering parts in the next couple weeks for it.

I finally pulled the trigger on a torque converter for this turd. With the sprocket ratio I have, plus the 16in tall rear tire, it should do well over 65mph. I'm hoping I will still have some nice low end grunt with the torque converter installed. Should be pretty rowdy!

The gas tank came in and I did a little bit of hacking on it. Not sure how I am going to mount it yet, but I'm loving the look of it so far. The handle bars are stock bars from a honda grom that I found locally on letgo. Now I just need to find a seat that has the look I'm going for.

Free predator:






Wacked off the mounting tabs


Tank mocked up with the handle bars on





Bonus pic of the DB30 when I was done with it.
 
#31
Those big wheels, front fork, and rear swing arm really make this an appealing bike. I can see this being duplicated on many other bikes that just have a bare frame to start with. Great job :thumbsup:

I just looked for a set of 10" wheels on ebay, they are proud of those spoke 10" wheels for sure.
 
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#33
Thanks guys!

Those big wheels, front fork, and rear swing arm really make this an appealing bike. I can see this being duplicated on many other bikes that just have a bare frame to start with. Great job :thumbsup:

I just looked for a set of 10" wheels on ebay, they are proud of those spoke 10" wheels for sure.

I think I paid $30 shipped for that front wheel. I bought it as a replacement for a pit bike, but ended up selling the bike before the wheel ever got delivered lol. I still need to find a tire for this rim. I'm thinking about going with a moped tire. It might not have the exact look I'm going for, but I just want something that will be safe at 60mph+

I started mocking up the engine this morning. The torque converter is causing some major clearance issues. It's looking like if I raise the engine up about 2 inches or so, everything should clear.



 
#35
Have you considered making some new plates to run the TAV like the factory did? You could then leave the engine (and COG) down low.
New plates could be an answer if he's using a TAV20 and a 6" driven. A TAV30 symmetrical could work, but again, it's has to have a 6" driven or it will not fit. There is 1/8" clearance to the rear engine mount (fore) and about the same (aft) if using factory swing arm location, with a 6" driven. That's assuming the new swing arm mounting tube locates in the factory position. See: http://www.oldminibikes.com/forum/m...gilson-wards-tav-jackshaft-bracket-sorta.html

BTW, using the above will eliminate the clocking problem since no TAV backer plate is required.
 
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#36
That's actually not a bad idea. It would look a lot cleaner that way. I have a feeling my swing arm mount would probably interfere with the driven pulley though. I'll take some measurements tomorrow.

*just looked at some pictures. I didn't realize the brackets are bigger and would move the pulley closer to the engine plate. That should work really well.
 
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#37
Send me a PM with a mailing address and I can send you a template, if you want. Made out of 3/16" steel and steel tubing split in half. I wouldn't recommend just making the plate with out the bearing step off. The face of the bearing has to face in to the TAV.
 
#38
Send me a PM with a mailing address and I can send you a template, if you want. Made out of 3/16" steel and steel tubing split in half. I wouldn't recommend just making the plate with out the bearing step off. The face of the bearing has to face in to the TAV.

I appreciate the offer, but last night I spent some time staring at the bike realized that setup won't work for me. The original setup has the sprocket on the right side of the rear wheel. With the swing arm I'm using, I have to run the sprocket on the left side and the brake disc on the right side. I played with it a bit more though. If I move the engine back to the end of the sliders, I only need to raise it an inch for the torque converter setup to fit and clear everything and the sprockets line up perfectly.
 
#39
I appreciate the offer, but last night I spent some time staring at the bike realized that setup won't work for me. The original setup has the sprocket on the right side of the rear wheel. With the swing arm I'm using, I have to run the sprocket on the left side and the brake disc on the right side. I played with it a bit more though. If I move the engine back to the end of the sliders, I only need to raise it an inch for the torque converter setup to fit and clear everything and the sprockets line up perfectly.
Well, there you go!:thumbsup:
 
#40
I appreciate the offer, but last night I spent some time staring at the bike realized that setup won't work for me. The original setup has the sprocket on the right side of the rear wheel. With the swing arm I'm using, I have to run the sprocket on the left side and the brake disc on the right side. I played with it a bit more though. If I move the engine back to the end of the sliders, I only need to raise it an inch for the torque converter setup to fit and clear everything and the sprockets line up perfectly.
Was worth a shot
 
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