Finally got the MIG conversion

[mrpat]

I'm excited about finally being able to get my little welder converted to gas. I bought the welder years ago with the intention of converting it from flux core wire to solid wire.

I had a bottle of CO2 that I have on it right now (from a failed coke machine I was gonna build that never happened), but once that CO2 is gone, I will likely use a 75/25 mix.

 

[Studeman68]

MrPat, if that thing works like my Lincoln 100 did on gas, you will love it! I had one and sold it when I upgraded to a larger Hobart. In retrospect I should have kept it for smaller work like sheet metal. It was excellent at the sheet metal work on lower settings. I miss it!

 

[Havasu Dave]

MrPat, if that thing works like my Lincoln 100 did on gas, you will love it! I had one and sold it when I upgraded to a larger Hobart. In retrospect I should have kept it for smaller work like sheet metal. It was excellent at the sheet metal work on lower settings. I miss it!

When Pat posted this, I looked up the difference between running pure CO2, and running 25/75 with argon.

I was surprised to learn that pure CO2 provides better penetration, which might be important for our smaller machines, but more splatter. I realize I am probably the last guy to learn this, LOL, but thought it worth mentioning. The 25/75 allows for thinner metal welds on the same machine.

Pat, it's supposed to sound like frying bacon when the gas and the heat are set right- so the experts tell me. Personally, my angle grinder remains my best welding tool. :laugh:

 

[David wulf]

Pat you will lose ability to penetrate larger stuff , flux core is the best for small amp welders . Flux core burns hotter than the mig wire .
Also run 023 wire that welder will have a hard time burning 035 wire with gas . And you might want to try a tri mix gas , argon helium and co2 . This gas burns hotter than 75-25 and really helps a small welder . I have a Hobart 140 and run the tri mix though it . And one more thing run that little Lincoln wide open heat wise and then work down if your burning shit up . If you have anymore questions just ask .

 

[Havasu Dave]

Pat you will lose ability to penetrate larger stuff , flux core is the best for small amp welders . Flux core burns hotter than the mig wire .
Also run 023 wire that welder will have a hard time burning 035 wire with gas . And you might want to try a tri mix gas , argon helium and co2 . This gas burns hotter than 75-25 and really helps a small welder . I have a Hobart 140 and run the tri mix though it . And one more thing run that little Lincoln wide open heat wise and then work down if your burning shit up . If you have anymore questions just ask .

David, good to see you post here. I get at least 1/8" with .024 and 25/75. True, there is better penetration with flux wire, but I have never needed that extra penetration, (advertised .25" but I doubt it) with any of my mini bike projects. Not to mention the extra splatter.

I only have about six years of hobby experience with welding, so I had to look up the Tri Gas.

With regard to tri-gas, it does not make a hotter arc. What it does is allows for "spray transfer" with less splatter, which is a technique used for out of place welding, or SS. These small welders don't have enough amperage for that anyway.

The same place I got the above info from also says the 25/75 is good for .035 and .045 wire! Well hells bells, all I use is .024.

I need to replace my inert gas now anyway, and have no problem experimenting. Do you have practical, empirical experience with using Tri Mix on a 140 with .025 and mild steel?

I'd like to get better looking welds, and get more control over my penetration. I do agree with you that keeping the current turned up high, then adjusting feed and distance with the wire is the way to go with these! :thumbsup:

 

[mrpat]

Pat you will lose ability to penetrate larger stuff , flux core is the best for small amp welders . Flux core burns hotter than the mig wire .
Also run 023 wire that welder will have a hard time burning 035 wire with gas . And you might want to try a tri mix gas , argon helium and co2 . This gas burns hotter than 75-25 and really helps a small welder . I have a Hobart 140 and run the tri mix though it . And one more thing run that little Lincoln wide open heat wise and then work down if your burning shit up . If you have anymore questions just ask .

David,
Thanks for the input. I am just backyard hack with a love for tools and mini bikes. I've used .035" flux core for everything I do so far and it works great (except for the extra spatter). I was surprised to see that in order to get the equivalent penetration with .025" mild steel mig wire, I had to crank the heat all the way up. The welds come out looking really good compared to the flux core.

Thanks for the tips!

 

[mrpat]

When Pat posted this, I looked up the difference between running pure CO2, and running 25/75 with argon.

I was surprised to learn that pure CO2 provides better penetration, which might be important for our smaller machines, but more splatter. I realize I am probably the last guy to learn this, LOL, but thought it worth mentioning. The 25/75 allows for thinner metal welds on the same machine.

Pat, it's supposed to sound like frying bacon when the gas and the heat are set right- so the experts tell me. Personally, my angle grinder remains my best welding tool. :laugh:

Dave,
Thanks for the response. I was asking one of the guys in my shop about running pure CO2 (since I have a full bottle that I'll never use). He did tell me that it will run hotter (which is good in my book), but the welds wouldn't be as "buttery" as with a mix gas.

My 2 favorite tools are the angle grinder and the BFH

 

[David wulf]

Dave the tri mix is all I use in my MIG setup although I rarely use it anymore , my tig welder is about all I need for anything.
Yes the tri mix has about NO splatter and it does burn hotter , that's the only reason I pay 70 dollars a bottle verses 45 .
In regards to the smaller wire if you have anywhere between 100-140 amps , it's easier to melt a smaller diameter wire than a bigger one .
Amperage in welders are odd my 140 is good for not much more than 1/8 metal and that's turned up on high . With my tig welder I never use more than 100 amps and that will light up some 3/16 . For most mini related stuff I'am at 50 amps and backing off the pedal once I have a puddle going .

 

[David wulf]

David,
Thanks for the input. I am just backyard hack with a love for tools and mini bikes. I've used .035" flux core for everything I do so far and it works great (except for the extra spatter). I was surprised to see that in order to get the equivalent penetration with .025" mild steel mig wire, I had to crank the heat all the way up. The welds come out looking really good compared to the flux core.

Thanks for the tips!

The reason for having to crank it up is the flux core is a hollow wire . So when you start using a solid wire it going to take more heat to burn it . That's why you wouldn't want to use a 035 mig wire . These small machines would struggle to burn it .

 

[Havasu Dave]

Dave the tri mix is all I use in my MIG setup although I rarely use it anymore , my tig welder is about all I need for anything.

Thanks David. I don't want to hear about a TIG. I see no reason to invest money in one, as a hobbyist. (I have access if I need it)

What ratio are you using in the Tri mix? There are different ratios, and they do different things, and from what I am reading, none of them apply to iron. Which ratio are you using that gives the appearance of a hotter bead?

I agree with you on the metal thickness of the 140. But as I said, it is more than adequate for mini bike and go kart work, yet small enough for the delicate work, which is a lot of what I do.

I'm willing to give this a try, I don't buy the "hotter" comment, but I am certain that you and Pat's friend saying that means the weld is penetrating and looking better, and I can use that! I need a ratio!

 

[jeep2003]

I have the same exact welder been using it for 15 years the only thing iv replaced was the rectifiers. I run 035 and straight co2 because its cheap and i dont have to get it at the welding shop they are jerks there. plus i get to keep my bottle and dont have to worry about the expiration date on a new one. they usually give me one that expires sooner than the last one. I actually traded in my mix bottles for co2 bottles.

 

[David wulf]

Thanks David. I don't want to hear about a TIG. I see no reason to invest money in one, as a hobbyist. (I have access if I need it)

What ratio are you using in the Tri mix? There are different ratios, and they do different things, and from what I am reading, none of them apply to iron. Which ratio are you using that gives the appearance of a hotter bead?

I agree with you on the metal thickness of the 140. But as I said, it is more than adequate for mini bike and go kart work, yet small enough for the delicate work, which is a lot of what I do.

I'm willing to give this a try, I don't buy the "hotter" comment, but I am certain that you and Pat's friend saying that means the weld is penetrating and looking better, and I can use that! I need a ratio!

Dave my gas comes from AIRGAS, inc and iam using their TriMix 90 percent helium and 2.5 co2 and 7.5 argon .

 

[Havasu Dave]

Dave my gas comes from AIRGAS, inc and iam using their TriMix 90 percent helium and 2.5 co2 and 7.5 argon .

Awesome! Thanks for getting back to me on it.

 

[scrambler1]

I guess I won't say anything about tigs Dave.

 

[David wulf]

I guess I won't say anything about tigs Dave.

Lmao !!! He probably doesn't but TIG is the only way to weld . I rarely ever use my MIG setup.

 

[Havasu Dave]

Lmao !!! He probably doesn't but TIG is the only way to weld . I rarely ever use my MIG setup.

If I need something TIG welded, I go down the road to a friend's shop, where he has three of varying sizes and get it done for free.

If I had more money than sense and a need to impress some amateurs on a mini bike website, I could always go buy one.

The reason I said "don't mention TIG" was because this thread was not about TIG, and every time there is a welding thread, some "OldMiniBikes Expert" has to chime in on how they now have a TIG welder and it will do everything but have sex with them. Some of us are cheerfully remaining in MIG land, muttering to ourselves, "I remember my first beer." :wink:

Which reminds me, people who are learning on their MIGs should not post photos of their early work. Specifically "intake manifolds." :thumbsup:

 

[SAT]

To date, we are on-board with the MIG camp. We have a Blue machine that plugs into 20A circuit, uses COv2/Argon and 0.024 or 0.030 wire. Maybe ignorance is bliss? I look closely at every reference and picture in an effort to improve my welding skills. Secretly, I know how to get good at welding... Go weld a bunch. And listen to, and watch the folks with experience.
Thank you all for these kind of threads, even though they make my head hurt...
Steve

 

[FOMOGO]

I'm excited about finally being able to get my little welder converted to gas. QUOTE]

Just curious if you have had the chance to do much welding with the gas conversion? Personally I have never done any Flux core Mig welding. Everything I was told about the 2 was always that the gas was the way to go. This was with clean metal. And my focus was sheet metal restoration work. They said flux core was more useful along the same use as a stick welder with dirty, rusty metal.

An interesting note on flux core verses gas. I have a friend that works for an overhead crane company. He deals with purchasing. They build them all the way up to 100 tons capacity. They use .060 flux core wire and gas. I never asked what gas they used... I am curious now. I did ask what their 500 amp machines were set at to weld 3/4'' plate. "Wide open" was the reply... These fellows do some beautiful welding on these box girder cranes. Some of the big box girders I have seen were 60'' tall and 90' long with a bunch of camber (as they call it) built in. The guys would be inside the box welding and the red would show through the 3/4 plate just like you were welding on the outside...

As for the 90 - 2.5 - 7.5 mix gas. Brent Vandervort that owns Fat Man Fabrications told me that his guys weld all their new frames with this mix. As Dave referred to it, Brent called it spray welding. It makes some really pretty welds that's for sure. They use Miller 250 machines and run them hotter than you would think you need. I have a big bottle of this as I was planning to use it on my 56 F-100 frame but I have not tried it yet.

Doug

 

[jim85541]

I have an older Lincoln 135 that I am running gas on. Tried CO2 and mig mix. Not sure I like one more than the other. But I do seem to always be welding a bit cold. I have seen the 180 machines and have a couple 220 plugs in the garage. Are they worth it or should I just buy the bigger mig for 1500-2000? I had a chance to buy a TIG and passed on it, now wishing I had one.

 

[SAT]

Not wanting to step on toes here...
I use a big stick machine for everything over 3/16"-1/4". Part of the reason we got the little MIG was the aluminum spool gun capability.
If we get a TIG, I gotta get a bigger cart...
SAT