Got Boost?

Daniel Coop

Daniel Coop

Well-Known Member
#1
#1
I as well as a few of you, I'm sure have seen the few YouTube videos of forced induction mini bikes. I've mainly seen a couple of guys build roots type superchargers out of smog pumps from late 70's early 80's cars, but have not seen many functional turbocharged engines. Has anyone here had any luck or experience with forced induction (not nitrous) on these engines? Here's a couple of videos I dug up from YouTube for those who haven't seen them...[video=youtube_share;TJTQ_XO3NK0]https://youtu.be/TJTQ_XO3NK0[/video][video=youtube_share;gERfFq8eAK0]https://youtu.be/gERfFq8eAK0[/video]
And the one turbo video I could find. This one is really cool. It's a big block diesel and he's from my hometown, Aurora CO. [video=youtube_share;F49NTjbfIOA]https://youtu.be/F49NTjbfIOA[/video]
Doing a little poking around on the interweb, I found this company that's specializing in small Turbo and injected conversions for small engines. Interesting kit, but would require a charging system and battery to make work. Small Engine Turbo Charger - Small Turbo Kits | RHB31 VZ21 Turbo charger. Here's the link to their injection conversion kit. Small Engine Fuel Injection Kits for Turbo Charger applications - Small Engine EFI Conversion Kit | Small Turbo chargers
 
Daniel Coop

Daniel Coop

Well-Known Member
#3
#3
Ahh, c'mon Hater Davis... I could always stack 2 .045 head gaskets with firing rings in one of my motors. Lol! Have plenty of squish for the boom then...:thefinger:. Do you ever have anything constructive or informative to ad?
 
Daniel Coop

Daniel Coop

Well-Known Member
#5
#5
Didn't know I was asking for help...?:eek:ut: Just trying to start a conversation about forced induction and wether or not it's feasible and if anyone else has attempted or successfully turbo charged a small engine...Ya know, like people do on these forums?
My buddy Mike here in Denver is working on turbo charging his GX390 mini chopper. (Ain't nothing mini about this beast)

I guess he didn't like being beat up on by a couple small blocks and decided to go balls out...lol
I have yet to check it out in person, but if you notice in the picture, you can still see the aftermarket air filter with a nitrous line (which he never did have operational) attached to the original carb. I'm guessing this is before he had finalized the intake? :shrug: My other buddy said he's seen a new video of it running, so IDK... Sounds like I might get a chance to play with it soon. He hasn't done anything with the motor yet to handle the extra boost/performance.
 
Davis

Davis

Well-Known Member
#6
#6
Nice but doubt your gonna get much response on this subject as your the king motor guy on the site nor do you take advice well good luck.
 
Daniel Coop

Daniel Coop

Well-Known Member
#7
#7
Lol! Far from it. Damn you're a jerk... Just because​ I share what little bit of experience I do have and it might differ from someone else, doesn't make me a know it all, or the king of shit... Like many of us, I'm just a man playing with toys in his garage. Just like in the automotive repair industry, everyone's got a slightly different way to get the job done, some are just faster/more productive than others and there's no shortage of testosterone and blow-hards who think they do know it all. It's one of many reasons, I got fed up and left the industry. I'm no better than anyone else, but at least I am out there trying and having fun. Some of you guys take this shit too seriously and personal. It's freaking mini bikes. Supposed to be fun.
 
Daniel Coop

Daniel Coop

Well-Known Member
#9
#9
Nice! Do you have a ruckus too or just a GY6 powered kart or buggy or something? Now I know who to message when I have a question...lol. I did start eyeballing my Ruckus with that kit in mind after seeing that. It'd definitely be easier just for the charging system. I've just kinda lost interest in it since I got into minis because they're quite a bit faster and funner. Tried selling it over the summer, to make room in my shop, but the local market was flooded with them at the time and most were cheaper than I was willing to let mine go for. I figured I'd just keep it for the quickie grocery/convenience store runs and possibly get to finally modding it out next summer.
 
Davis

Davis

Well-Known Member
#10
#10
:xmas-smiley-016::xmas-smiley-016::xmas-smiley-016::xmas-smiley-016::xmas-smiley-016::xmas-smiley-016::xmas-smiley-016::xmas-smiley-016::001_huh::xmas-smiley-016::xmas-smiley-016::xmas-smiley-016:
Daniel Coop said:
Lol! Far from it. Damn you're a jerk... Just because​ I share what little bit of experience I do have and it might differ from someone else, doesn't make me a know it all, or the king of shit... Like many of us, I'm just a man playing with toys in his garage. Just like in the automotive repair industry, everyone's got a slightly different way to get the job done, some are just faster/more productive than others and there's no shortage of testosterone and blow-hards who think they do know it all. It's one of many reasons, I got fed up and left the industry. I'm no better than anyone else, but at least I am out there trying and having fun. Some of you guys take this shit too seriously and personal. It's freaking mini bikes. Supposed to be fun.
Click to expand...
Cha cha cha!
Putz!
 
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EVOL Tweety Bird

EVOL Tweety Bird

Active Member
#11
#11
Oh heck I'll jump in. First things first as to why it's probably not done. $$$
Just the basic parts for a turbo, from this site, $500.00+ for a Chinese copy.
Small Engine Turbo Charger - Small Turbo Kits | RHB31 VZ21 Turbo charger

And that does not include piping, connectors, and such. Those would have to be custom bent to fit the application. Nor does it include an intercooler set up. Then add a fuel injection system to be of any worth to the setup. Don't forget the battery and charging system.
Figure till you had a working setup, your mini would be the size of a Goldwing to fit it all.

Finally I would question whether a small single cylinder engine would have enough pressure to make a turbo do anything of performance vs the weight gain needed to make it work.



Might a well stuff a leaf blower on it, or one of those electric turbos for all it's worth.

All that said, the GM style smog pump could be a workable thing. The pumps are cheap. Would need to add a blowoff set up and you could dial the "boost" via pulley size. If I was to go any of these routes, the smog pump would be it.

Darn it! Now you have me thinking about this.
 
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TheDullCarbide

TheDullCarbide

Active Member
#13
#13
Recklessford said:
The major barrier on turbocharging a small engine for me has always been the oiling system for the turbocharger.
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That's why the site says it is bolt-on for GY6's. All GY6's have pressurized lubrication and some even have oil cooler ports. Almost a no-brainer for a turbo oiling system.

Also Predator 670's have oil coolers...
 
65ShelbyClone

65ShelbyClone

Well-Known Member
#14
#14
But the GY6 doesn't have pressurized oiling. It has a pump that moves oil, but it's like all of Honda's roller-bearing engines in that volume is more important than pressure. My XR600 is a big single with maybe 10psi cold and it goes to nearly zero hot. That's not enough for a turbo. The only bike engines that usually have full-pressure oiling are the ones with conventional journal bearings and there are very few singles built that way.

EVOL Tweety Bird said:
Finally I would question whether a small single cylinder engine would have enough pressure to make a turbo do anything of performance vs the weight gain needed to make it work.
Click to expand...
It's no different than with cars as far as percentages go. Run 15psi of boost through any engine and the power will about double. That turns into real numbers with a car, but when you talk about doubling the power of a 5hp engine to 10hp, it doesn't sound so impressive.

Turbos have better response on engines with multiple cylinders, but they work fine on singles. Really the hardest part is finding one small enough to work on a 200cc engine and a VZ21 is one of the few that more or less will. It's important to remember than even those tiny things came on engines 340% bigger and in the 60-70hp range.

Would need to add a blowoff set up
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Only if the compressor was upstream of the throttle. They serve no purpose with conventional draw-through setups. Using a BOV to control boost in a draw-through setup like in the first video is actually dangerous. The valve will be dumping flammable fuel and air at high pressure...under your legs. The guy should just pulley the blower to adjust boost the right way, not try to bleed everything off after the work and fuel has been added. Doing that with a turbo is recipe for overspeeding the compressor.

Recklessford said:
The major barrier on turbocharging a small engine for me has always been the oiling system for the turbocharger.
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Me too. It requires a whole standalone lube system for the turbo and increases plumbing by about 50%. Slinger engines don't have enough pooled oil in the sump for the turbo to share and the oil that's there is quite frothy.
 
TheDullCarbide

TheDullCarbide

Active Member
#15
#15
65ShelbyClone said:
But the GY6 doesn't have pressurized oiling. It has a pump that moves oil, but it's like all of Honda's roller-bearing engines in that volume is more important than pressure.
Click to expand...
Okay, I agree. I made the mistake of lumping GY6's in with actual pressurized oil systems.

A Pred 670 DOES have a PRESSURIZED oiling system. Don't believe me, ask C&C.
 
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