H50 rebuild

[copyman]

I finished rebuilding an old H50 engine. It's running great now and starts on first or second pull but have one concern. Every time usually on first pull when you pull to start it will snap back really hard, then next pull will be fine and it will start and run great.

I noticed when I was done the rebuild I couldn't turn the crank by hand, had to put flywheel on to turn and was still really tight. Put oil on all moving parts before closing case. Watched everything move and looked fine. Since this was my first rebuild I figured it was suppose to be tight and new parts had to seat it and loosen up?

All bolts torqued to factory spec.

These are all the new parts I put in:

piston & rings "standard" (honed cyl, still within spec 2.6250), connecting rod, valves (lapped), valve springs & lifters, breather kit w/green filter, OEM carb, all new oil seals & gaskets, points & condenser, spark plug

Engine seems like it is getting a little looser to pull start but still snaps back almost breaking my arm!

Appreciate the help

Thanks

 

[OND]

Sound like your timing is off . Is this a points engine ?

 

[copyman]

Sound like your timing is off . Is this a points engine ?

Hi, yes it's points. As I posted I put new points & condenser in with rebuild.

Also as I posted the engine was hard to turn by hand AFTER rebuild before even trying to start. Even with cyl head off.
Couldn't turn at all by hand unless I put flywheel on then could turn crank shaft. Is this normal after a total rebuild?

Thanks for the reply

 

[mustangfrank]

Hi, yes it's points. As I posted I put new points & condenser in with rebuild.

Also as I posted the engine was hard to turn by hand AFTER rebuild before even trying to start. Even with cyl head off.
Couldn't turn at all by hand unless I put flywheel on then could turn crank shaft. Is this normal after a total rebuild?

Thanks for the reply

How hard is it to turn over NOW after you ran it and did your break in? The arm jerk when pulling is probably timing as already mentioned.

If all your oil clearances were spot on it's going to be "tighter" until you do a proper break in and seat the new rings on the honed walls.

 

[copyman]

Hi, I've only started and rode it 3 times for around 10 mins each. It's been too cold here to ride long. Even the 30 mins total run time seems like it's getting more loose to start.

Well you are the 3rd person (2 here and local guy) that said the arm jerk was timing. So I guess will have to pull engine off bike and time it correctly. I had marked the bolts on magneto and put back exactly where they were but with rebuilt engine guess it has to be timed correctly? I tried to time with a piece of stock bolted to top using feeler gauges & ohm meter but that didn't work so put back magneto where I had marked the bolts. Tried to find a TEC timing dial gauge but they are so expensive and hard to find.

Would it be running great with timing off? I figured timing was ok since it is running great! Idle & top end best it's ever been. And best of all NO smoke! Nice to take a ride and not smell like you been working in a garage all day LOL.

Thanks for the help

 

[mustangfrank]

Hi, I've only started and rode it 3 times for around 10 mins each. It's been too cold here to ride long. Even the 30 mins total run time seems like it's getting more loose to start.

Well you are the 3rd person (2 here and local guy) that said the arm jerk was timing. So I guess will have to pull engine off bike and time it correctly. I had marked the bolts on magneto and put back exactly where they were but with rebuilt engine guess it has to be timed correctly? I tried to time with a piece of stock bolted to top using feeler gauges & ohm meter but that didn't work so put back magneto where I had marked the bolts. Tried to find a TEC timing dial gauge but they are so expensive and hard to find.

Would it be running great with timing off? I figured timing was ok since it is running great! Idle & top end best it's ever been. And best of all NO smoke! Nice to take a ride and not smell like you been working in a garage all day LOL.

Thanks for the help

Nice thing about buying the Tecumseh timing tool is it's actually an investment, damn things keep creeping up in value if they are lightly used and in the original box.

Advanced timing cam make it run better (hp/top end) but can also cause pull starting kickback, especially on an H with no compression release.

 

[copyman]

Nice thing about buying the Tecumseh timing tool is it's actually an investment, damn things keep creeping up in value if they are lightly used and in the original box.

Advanced timing cam make it run better (hp/top end) but can also cause pull starting kickback, especially on an H with no compression release.

Thanks makes perfect sense. The person that told me about timing with a piece of stock bolted to top of cyl and feeler gauges said he does it all the time that way. He has been doing it for years. lol I didn't have luck with doing it. Got frustrated and put magneto back on where bolt marks were.

Question, since it's much easier with engine on bike to take blower housing off to time, if it's advanced as you say do you know which direction I would move the magneto to UN-advance the timing. Maybe I could move a very little at a time in that direction and might get close? Just until I find the TEC dial indicator with flag on end that you screw into spark plug hole at a decent price. I would spend $100 but not $200+ as I've seen them. I agree about a good investment, if you can even find one! My arm can't take much more

Thanks again

 

[mustangfrank]

Thanks makes perfect sense. The person that told me about timing with a piece of stock bolted to top of cyl and feeler gauges said he does it all the time that way. He has been doing it for years. lol I didn't have luck with doing it. Got frustrated and put magneto back on where bolt marks were.

Question, since it's much easier with engine on bike to take blower housing off to time, if it's advanced as you say do you know which direction I would move the magneto to UN-advance the timing. Maybe I could move a very little at a time in that direction and might get close? Just until I find the TEC dial indicator with flag on end that you screw into spark plug hole at a decent price. I would spend $100 but not $200+ as I've seen them. I agree about a good investment, if you can even find one! My arm can't take much more

Thanks again

You're on you own on that shade tree technique of setting timing, I wouldn't even run an un-timed vintage engine myself.

It's just the relationship between the coil and the flywheel magnets, picture the direction of rotation and you'll figure out which way to move them if you're gonna do it blind.

 

[copyman]

Ok. I have 3 of these H engines engines so I'll take the chance timing blind until I find the tool. Like I said must be real close because it''s running great! And have a good starting point with the original bolt marks. I'll tray a little each way and see if it stops the rope from snapping back and still runs good.

Take care

 

[copyman]

Just wanted to follow up. After starting & riding several more times the engine loosened up and no snap back with starter rope. Running like a brand new engine!

Anyone that is thinking about rebuilding a TEC engine go for it. This was my first rebuild and was easier then I thought. Just make sure to follow the instructions in the "L head manual" (free download all over the internet and think on this forum). Someone on this forum posted a 10 yr old could rebuild a 4 stroke engine. They were pretty close, it's that easy. I probably could of cleaned and used most of the old parts but replaced everything except the Cam. Got lucky with the timing and put stator back where original bolt marks were and starts on 1st or 2nd pull and running perfect! Oh yea it's helps to buy a few tools to make it easier, ring compressor, valve lapper kit, hone kit, valve spring compressor. (less than $50, most from Harbor Freight)

Just started to rebuild my 2nd Hilltopper engine H50 65286H.

Also probably rebuilding a 3rd engine as I just drove a few hundred miles to pick up another Hilltopper. 95% original but very rusty! Wish I could dip the whole thing in a rust remover bath! ha-ha. Good thing is it has the original head light which works! I thought light was original on my first bike but wasn't once I saw this and original pics from old ads, etc. Once I swap the head lights my first Hilltopper will be 100% correct / original down to the old style hose clamps & tires. It does have a new OEM H50 carb but I have the original carb that when I get around to rebuilding one of these days I guess than it will be truly 100% correct.

Thanks again to the several members who helped me along the way. You guys can take some credit for this engine running like new! You took the time to answer some stupid questions.

These great people that helped me made up for the "few" moron members that tried to run me off for asking about a price of a bike. They can kiss my ASS!