I bought Arctic Cat with H50 Tecumseh want to put a TAV2 on it will it fit?

GustoGuy

GustoGuy

Well-Known Member
#1
#1
engine size.jpg PTO.jpg PTO to frame.jpg

Hello,

I bought 1972 Arctic Cat climber minibike with a 3 inch clutch and it has 3/4th inch PTO on the engine. The clutch was clanking pretty badly and the guy gave me a replacement clutch which he bought and never installed however it was for a 35 chain rather than the 41 chain which is on the bike. The rear sprocket is on the same side of the bike as the engine PTO and would a TAV fit into the space on the bike's frame? Here are some pictures. I could not find any measurements of the backing plate size. It appears to have about 8 inches of space from the center of the PTO to the edge of the frame in front of the rear swingarm. Here are some pictures.
 
Last edited:
GustoGuy

GustoGuy

Well-Known Member
#2
#2
I was looking for original Arctic Cat parts for the stock TAV and I wasn't finding any parts. I know that the bike has a larger 5hp since the original engine was Tecumseh HS 40 and I have an older H50. I guess I could put a 10T 41 clutch or should I use a 12T 41 Clutch. I heard that you loose a little bit of bottom end by going up 2 extra teeth but gain a bit more top end.
 
Ding Ding

Ding Ding

Well-Known Member
#4
#4
I have never seen a TAV on an Arctic bike. I don't think it would work as it would need to reside inside the frame rails, but there isn't enough room.

Your bike appears to be a former 2 stroke Sachs bike, likely a 1971 Prowler model. Somewhere along the way someone welded a plate to the frame to use a 4 cycle engine...likely because the Sachs engine was no longer working. I've seen this several times, but people always put a clutch on the engine and run a chain from it to the rear sprocket because it's easy. That set up will work, but you will never achieve the torque that you get from a true torque converter/jackshaft setup.

Mike
 
GustoGuy

GustoGuy

Well-Known Member
#5
#5
Thanks Mike.

I had a sneaky suspicion that It wouldn't fit so I thought I ask before buying a TAV. Do you think the H50 5hp will have enough power to turn a 12T Clutch? It had a shot 10T clutch and tops out at about 30 mph max. My Doodle bug has a Predator 212cc engine with a 14T clutch and it goes 37mph and still takes off good but then the Predator engine has at least a couple of extra HP over the H50 5hp engine.
 
GustoGuy

GustoGuy

Well-Known Member
#6
#6
Ding Ding said:
I have never seen a TAV on an Arctic bike. I don't think it would work as it would need to reside inside the frame rails, but there isn't enough room.

Your bike appears to be a former 2 stroke Sachs bike, likely a 1971 Prowler model. Somewhere along the way someone welded a plate to the frame to use a 4 cycle engine...likely because the Sachs engine was no longer working. I've seen this several times, but people always put a clutch on the engine and run a chain from it to the rear sprocket because it's easy. That set up will work, but you will never achieve the torque that you get from a true torque converter/jackshaft setup.

Mike
Click to expand...
I was looking at my bike tonight and you can see were the steel plate was welded in. I read that the original 2 stroke 47cc Sachs 3 Horse power 2 Cycle engine only had about 2.8 to 3hp. I heard it had a 2 speed transmission. Being I have a 5hp Tecumseh I should have even better performance and if it ever blows on me I could drop a stage 2 Predator 212cc with about 10hp. I heard the most powerful Arctic Cat mini bikes only had 8hp anyway so a good running H50 Tecumseh should make for a fun ride.
 
Ding Ding

Ding Ding

Well-Known Member
#7
#7
GustoGuy said:
I was looking at my bike tonight and you can see were the steel plate was welded in. I read that the original 2 stroke 47cc Sachs 3 Horse power 2 Cycle engine only had about 2.8 to 3hp. I heard it had a 2 speed transmission. Being I have a 5hp Tecumseh I should have even better performance and if it ever blows on me I could drop a stage 2 Predator 212cc with about 10hp. I heard the most powerful Arctic Cat mini bikes only had 8hp anyway so a good running H50 Tecumseh should make for a fun ride.
Click to expand...
Yep, there are several indicators of your bike originally having a Sachs 2 cycle. The little Sachs is a great engine, and made good power for it's size. 5 hp is plenty fun on these bikes. I have a HS50 on one of mine it is quite stout down low with plenty of torque, but it also has the original torque converter on it. The 1971 Arctic Cat Screamer had an 8 hp Chrysler 2 stroke, and were capable of doing 55+ mph. Regardless of engine size they are all fun machines.
 
ArcticMinibike

ArcticMinibike

Member
#8
#8
I concur, definitely a converted 71 Prowler, possibly a 72 Whisker with added front brake. Nice shoehorn job to pack that engine in there.

Saxonette's rule!! (throwing in a dig at my buddy Mike) Smooth 2-speed acceleration without all the slapity slap pop of a lawnmower engine and ringing clutch. Not exactly the same brute "me make bike go now" horsepower as the HS40, but more refined. Plus, the smoke keeps the mosquitoes away. ;)

Check the ebay listings for Arctic frames. There's a number of examples of Saxonette-based frames. You'll see where your engine mounts used to be. There's also an Ssscat-II and a Ramrod frame that show where the jackshaft mounts would be and the rear crossbar wouldn't be if yours was a climber frame.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk
 
GustoGuy

GustoGuy

Well-Known Member
#9
#9
I was looking for another minibike since I have a cabin were we have miles of low maintenance gravel roads and even some trails in the woods plus 2 mini bikes are double your pleasure. I have a Predator 212cc engine on my Baja Doodle Bug and it really flies with that engine so much that it was a wheelie machine so I went to Midway Iron and bought 3 pieces of steel and mounted one low on the frame in front of the engine and 2 right above the front wheel where the number plate is mounted and it made the bike much safer for the family to ride since I don't have to keep yelling at them to lean forward while driving away quickly since my step daughter whisky throttled it and flipped it over and bruised her hip. Right now the bike goes forward and does not wheelie over anymore. As to putting the Arctic Cat back to a 2 stroke Sach's I think I will pass and just keep the Tecumseh as long as it run well.
 
Last edited:
GustoGuy

GustoGuy

Well-Known Member
#10
#10
Here is a thought. How hard would it be to adapt a climber TAV to the Prowler chassis? Just flip the rear wheel around and mount the TAV from the climber on it and it should be all done. I may still get one of those TAV'S for my Predator 212cc powered Doodle bug however. I heard an easy 50mph is obtained with a stock 60 tooth rear sprocket on Baja Doodle Bug.
 
Last edited:
ArcticMinibike

ArcticMinibike

Member
#11
#11
I'm not so sure about the conversion feasibility. Everything is more than a simple flip. What I can tell you is that you don't want to be going 50+ mph on an Arctic. The Screamer was definitely an appropriately named rocket, but the supposed 55+ has always been a bit of a legend...more legend than fact. I'd like to see the math. The number has risen over the years. ;)

Regardless, I'll say again, you don't want to go that fast on an Arctic. It's not exactly a precision piece of machinery. The frames rust internally and crack easily. The headstock runs on stamped warehouse roller bearings. The brakes are questionable. Are you familiar with the opening credits for The Six Million Dollar Man? If not, look it up on YouTube... "I can't hold it... She's breaking up! She's breaking up!" LOL, I love that part.





Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk
 
GustoGuy

GustoGuy

Well-Known Member
#12
#12
Lol, Yes. I am in my mid fifties and I do remember The 6 million Dollar Man with Lee Majors. I will get it up and running with a new clutch and it should be plenty of fun. I also have a Rupp Roadster 2 that I need to find some time to work on too. That one I may turn into a little speed demon. My nearly 22 year old son wants me to build a fleet of mini bikes and when I was just a kid I was not allowed to get a mini bike and one neighbor had an old 90cc Harley Davidson and another one had a nice Rupp Roadster 2 so it will be fun to have a fleet of mini bikes since I definitely have plenty of room but not enough time unfortunately due to my work schedule to ride them.
 
Last edited:
Ding Ding

Ding Ding

Well-Known Member
#13
#13
GustoGuy said:
Here is a thought. How hard would it be to adapt a climber TAV to the Prowler chassis? Just flip the rear wheel around and mount the TAV from the climber on it and it should be all done. I may still get one of those TAV'S for my Predator 212cc powered Doodle bug however. I heard an easy 50mph is obtained with a stock 60 tooth rear sprocket on Baja Doodle Bug.
Click to expand...
It's doable, just depends how much fab work you want to do. It would be far more practical to use one that is made to use a torque converter. The alignment of everything needs to be right for it all to perform as intended. Your Prowler sprocket is also pretty small for gearing the torque converter bikes were set up for. Possible yes, practical...not so much.

ArcticMinibike said:
I'm not so sure about the conversion feasibility. Everything is more than a simple flip. What I can tell you is that you don't want to be going 50+ mph on an Arctic. The Screamer was definitely an appropriately named rocket, but the supposed 55+ has always been a bit of a legend...more legend than fact. I'd like to see the math. The number has risen over the years. ;)
Click to expand...
I think my Arctic 4 cycle bikes go about 25 mph. With the drive components of a SSScat II, Climber, Screamer, and even a Ramrod being very close to one another I don't know how the mythical 55mph number could ever be achieved. More power will never make you go faster if your gearing is still low. I have no real world confirmation of the supposed Screamer capabilities, all hear say.
 
ArcticMinibike

ArcticMinibike

Member
#14
#14
Ditto! The Saxonette models go around 25-30 on a good day. My small-wheel models slightly edge out my spoked 10" 72's.

I found the official West Bend 820 specs (they're still being made) but max rpm was the only spec not on the list. I found a post claiming that the 580 and 700 models were rated at 7,000 rpm. So, if that's over twice your HS40, then I suppose 50+ is possible with the same clutch and sprocket setup.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk
 
GustoGuy

GustoGuy

Well-Known Member
#15
#15
I finished my bike and put on a new Max torque 10 T clutch along with a new Amazon.com H50 carburetor on it and I used the GPS feature in my smart phone and on a flat section of paved road it flashed 30 mph. It acellerates quite quickly and I bought a new replica Arctic Cat Metallic flake clutch cover to put on it. It will be a great bike to cruise around on by my cabin.
 

Attachments

Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top