I cleaned my carb but............

Motra

Active Member
#1
It's so often that I read a thread that says "I cleaned the carb up real good and it still just ain't runnin' quite right." In my profession as a small engine tech I hear that line very regularly, then I come home and read it here too. It's great that people want to do things themselves to save money and even learn a little too, but the problem I see (literally, not my opinion) is that they don't know HOW to properly clean and rebuild a carburetor. It takes beginning mechanics, even those with a college degree in this field, about one to two years before they show any real level of proficiency in carburetor repair, and that's doing it on a regular basis. There're so many things to know and to look for when it comes to troubleshooting a carburetor. I know a lot of folks say "It's easy! You just squirt through this hole and that hole and you're done." I'll gladly welcome those guys to stop by at the beginning of snowblower season. I'd really love to keep talking about carburetors but my wife is having some abdominal pains, it must be her appendix. I read on the internet that removing the appendix is pretty easy so I think I'll give it a go!
 
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Motra

Active Member
#3
This appendectomy is turning out to be easy too. I just came out to have another drink and catch up on the forum. I need to get another knife too, I dropped my pocket knife so I'd better finish up with a kitchen knife. :hack:
 

Motra

Active Member
#4
I hope this didn't get taken out of context. I'm not trying to say that people on this forum don't know what they're talking about, I was only trying to say don't give up or get frustrated after you've attempted to repair a carburetor. I see people with little or no knowledge of carburetors cleaning a carb and then ruling it out as problem fixed, then say "so why doesn't it run right?" I've probably cleaned many hundreds of carbs and still sometimes I have to redo it. There's always a chance of getting a small piece of debris in it when reassembling, or having an o-ring not seat properly, or the fuel line gets brittle when it's old, so even if you've done a supurb job with the carb a small piece of the hardened rubber can break off when you're reinstalling the fuel line and go into the carb, and many more things. Manufacturers have annual update classes that we attend and many of them cover carburetors. So each year we have refresher courses on carburetor theory, repair, cleaning, etc., and this is for profesionals. Carburetor education is an area of constant attention, so for somebody with no experience to do it once and consider that problem fixed is kind of amusing to me. I have tons of manuals and other information I'd be happy to share if anyone's interested. I didn't mean for this thread to be an attack on anyone or insulting, I'm sorry if that's how it sounds. I just meant, if you've done the job to the best of your ability, learn more or take it to a profesional. And this forum is a great place to learn more.
 
#6
Two general questions on Tecumseh bowl type; make that Five:
#1 should or does the emulsion tube always have to rattle or slide when you flip the carb
#2 why don't the replacement plugs ever seem to fit unless I first beat them almost flat before installing them?
#3 Preference between bowl or diaphram carbs on the Tecs?
#4 I've been hording Tec carbs, is there a internal difference between your 2 and 4 stroke diaphram type carbs other then possible jetting?
#5 what is a good jet size; # drill size for your average yard type minibike? Without throwing all kinds of variables at me. And is it true that the snow blower carbs are better "bolt on" for performance because of improved fuel passages and jetting because of being intended to be run in cold temps? I've seen some where the choke simply don't open all the way. And I've seen them where the choke will?

This started as two simple questions:doah: sorry

Randy:scooter:
 

Motra

Active Member
#7
1. The rattle you hear when rotating the carb is not the emulsion tube (I've read things on the internet that calls it that but it really isn't). It's a fuel metering rod inside the idle/intermediate fuel circuit. It's not removable and, if equiped, needs to move freely. When reinstalling the low speed mixture adjustment screw, make sure the carburetor is not upside down. If the carburetor is upside down that rod will drop into the mixture screw bore and if the screw is forced in it'll cause damage.
2. The welsh plugs are designed to be installed with the domed shape outward. They fit loosely into the body of the carb. Once set in place, with the carb clamped in a vice with aluminum protectors, you use a large flat punch and hammer to flatten the plug. This spreads the plug outward and seals it tightly into the carburetor body. After instalation, it's a good idea to seal it with fingernail polish (I use clear).
3. I don't have a preference other than the diaphragm carbs can operate at a more severe angle, so they'd work good on a mini with an angle mount engine without the carb leveling manifold.
4. I don't know what the differences are between a 2 or 4-stroke carb. One misconception I read a lot is that Tecumseh carbs are the same for the 3 through 7 horsepower engines. They are the same type (series 1) of carb and they look identical externally, but internally they aren't the same. Take a 3HP carb and a 7HP carb, open the choke and throttle butterflies and look through them with a light behind them. The venturi size can be very noticably different. As for your next question, this (venturi size) also applies to snowblower carbs vs. standard carbs. The jetting can also be different. This doesn't just apply to the replaceable or adjustable jets, the internal fuel circuitry is different too. If you remove the welsh plug on the side of the carb that covers the idle/intermediate fuel chamber, the size, location and amount of holes (transfer pasages) is different too.
5. As far as jetting, that's something you do for your elevation and climate, but an adjustable carb makes that easy. I've never heard of snowblower carbs being better, they are jetted richer though. Something to remember with a snowblower carb is that they don't have the felt seals for the throttle and choke shafts so they're unprotected from dirt and grit entering and causing increased wear and air leaks. As far as the choke is concerned, the differences you've seen are probably just the positioning of the choke plate. If they get rotated slightly when tightening the screw that holds them to the shaft, it affects their movement.
 
#8
Thanks

Very nice, one more. How about the carbs with the external primer. It would be my assumption that there fine. Just put a Vac. type cap over the port where the hose go's? I have a few of them from the "winter engines"

Thanks again, Randy:scooter:
 

Motra

Active Member
#10
As for the winter carbs, they work fine. I've run an HSSK50 (Horizontal crankshaft/Small frame/Snow King) on my Tote Gote. You don't want to plug the port that the primer goes to though, it's also the float bowl vent. The float bowl needs atmospheric pressure above the fuel level to operate. The way the primer works is to increase the air pressure in the float bowl to the point of forcing some fuel through the main circuit and into the venturi where it can be easily drawn into the engine for cold starting. The float bowl is vented through the primer system, so when you push the primer bulb you're just giving the float bowl a quick burst of slightly higher air pressure. This isn't how all primer systems work though.
Some Tecumseh carbs don't have a idle/intermediate circuit (I used the word "transfer" in my last post, it actually should have been "transition"). That controls the fuel during the transition from idle up until the main circuit becomes dominant. This type of carb is mostly used where there is no manual throttle control, where the engine always runs at high speed. I haven't tried one of those carbs on a minibike but I would assume they wouldn't work very well, if at all. This type of carb doesn't have a welsh plug on the side, it has a place for one cast in but it's not drilled or machined. So if there's no flat aluminum plug, there's no transition circuit.
I know people are always swaping carbs around and in a lot of cases it probably works just fine. I guess I tend to stay closer to the manufacturers point of view.
 
#12
Welsh plug

here it is, you will normally have one right by the left side nut that holds the carb on and also one inside of the bowl in the carb body its self.
I have been amazed at the amount of crap that you will find behind them, almost like chalk in the last one I did. But once you have them out you cab properly clean the passages.
Installed

new plug
 
#14
I have a tiny antique manual drill press, tiny, it looks like a toy. It only stands 10" high. I use that and drill a 7/64 hole in them and normally they get snagged on the bit enough to pull out, if that don't happen then start a small sheet metal screw in the hole just enough to pop it out. Be very careful with the one on the side. The large one on the inside you can do the same or I've already used a small hook tool and just yanked it out, its for the bowl vent.
I would think a well stocked hardware store would have them but I have always gotten them along with my carb kit?
Randy:scooter:
 
#17
Something to remember with a snowblower carb is that they don't have the felt seals for the throttle and choke shafts so they're unprotected from dirt and grit entering and causing increased wear and air leaks.
Are the felt seals replaceable or serviceable if the throttle shaft is loose?
 
#18
Are the felt seals replaceable or serviceable if the throttle shaft is loose?
The felt washers are replaceable by removing the shaft which are held in by the small screw's on the plate inside the carb, if your shafts are badly worn you might have problems regardless. the screws "should" be replaced with new ones that come with the kit or lock-tite the old ones.

Welch plugs can be removed with a small chisel or drilled to make a hole (without damaging the carb body on the inside) then popped out with a punch, small screw driver.

Next time I rebuild a Tecumseh carb I'll do a vid but it will be awhile!
 
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