Hello, new to the forum as far as posting, but I bought a mb200 that needs some tlc and I'm starting with the engine which is 196cc clone (jang dong er'whatever). Looking for maximum bottom end power e.g.(less than 5000rpm), without blowing lots of money. I want to have charging coils/lights and a genuine honda flywheel with magnets is only safe (kinda) to 5000rpm. My logic says that bottom end torque is achieved by two things, displacement and lift/duration/valve size/flow to support the displacement. Thinking about running a 58mm (+.154"~)stroke stock style crank p/n(dj-1275-58), Ut2 flat top piston p/n(dj-2195), and 1.3:1 stamped steel ratio rockers p/n(dj-1100). After installing these parts with stock rod, I would measure exactly what length of new rod I should buy to reach 0* deck. Stroke alone would put me at 210cc+, if I can clearance that crank to fit. Looks like big a big cam might hinder bottom end (?maybe), thus why I'm thinking a stock cam with ratio rockers? I've looked some and haven't found a definitive compression height on a flat top ut2 piston. .570"-.580" maybe. Bike will be used for farming so not lots of time near max rpm, but lots of 0-25mph throttle punches and easing around checking water. Plan to gear the torque converter so 4800rpm is around 50 mph if it has the power to pull it there. Any thoughts on how bad/good this combo would be and if the rod ratio is a concern, or if a bigger carb is needed? It will have full flow exhaust . Thank in advance for any thought.
Low end power 196 clone
- Thread starter Royce Koehn
- Start date
Maybe the Ducar 212 would do what you want out of the box, and you could use the Giant Dong engine as a spare for something else? https://www.dynocams.com/item/212-1000/
This, and better gearing. I'd be hesitant to do so much extensive and expensive work on a dong. It's a clone name that's rarely mentioned in the 212 upgrade world and you could run into mismatches you're not expecting. A higher gear ratio will bring a lot of your engine's muscle into lower rpm range.
I really need to have charging coils for work/flood lights, and it looks like the only way is stock flywheel. As far as price, all those parts are less than $200. Crank, rockers and guide plate, piston, rings, and 18# springs is $106 from ARC, and a billet rod is $76. Really hard to get that kind of performance for the price with a different engine(or not), beings I own this one and two other 196 clones for parts. I'm not scared of engine internals or clearancing. That brings me to a different question, I have this dong engine, a hisun from a ct200, and a Greyhound 196cc (harbor fright predecessor to the 212), is one of the other engines a better block/core for the upgrades?
After some looking, looks like a wildcat 223 is quite moderately priced for what it is. Does any one know if you can still get the version with charging coils and not electric start? a wildcat 223c would suit my needs well. Actually do better, same stroke I was planning to build to, and 2mm bigger bore. Plus, higher flow head than I would've used, a factory charging system, and all in a stronger block than any 196 clone ever hopes to be. Thanks for the input so far, and still open to thoughts on previous engine build/parts combo. I can't seem to find the 223c available any where, only the non charging and full electric start.
The information you posted in post #1 has you on the right track. Especially using the stock cam with ratio rockers. A high duration cam will hurt bottom end and want to make power in the upper rpm range ( not what you're looking for ). The longer stroke crank ( with no other changes ) is going to put the piston higher. .154" divide by 2, you're to be .077" higher than now. I doubt your current piston sits that low. Also be ready grind for clearance in several places. Make sure to have at least .030" clearance between all moving parts.
All things considered, including gambling on clearance/strength of clone block and supporting peripherals, ended up buying a electric start wildcat 223. Threw in a super 30 series driver, so future performance upgrades already have enough drivetrain to support the power. I called EC and they said they no longer carry the pull start, charge coil model (they used to till stock ran out), only pull and electric start. Is a stock wildcat safe to 5000rpm? Even though its factory governed to 4000rpm? Stock rod is rated for 6200rpm, flywheel 5000rpm, and piston and crank I suppose are good past any of that?
Can't answer the safe rpm question. There are a few members who bought the wildcat. Type wildcat 223 in the search function and send them a pm. I suspect that swapping the rev limiting coil and moving the governor spring to the far hole will get you to about 4800 rpm max.
I suggested the 223 because you bought a pig heavy bike to use mostly for a work bike. Don't get me wrong. I love pig heavy bikes. I couldn't find one to suit my needs without excess modifications so I built one. Tilts the scales at about 180 lbs. I call it Farm Hog for a reason. It's built for work. It did wind up being heavier than anticipated.
Stock Pred 212, 19" tires. Thought about a 223/224 in it. Should have, I cheaped out. Doesn't bother me. Dabbled with header and intake, extra power was nice but I didn't like the sound so I went back stock. Could have bumped compression but I'm lazy and didn't want the down time. I use it all year, what passes for winter in central texas doesn't stop me.
Started out with a 60T rear sprocket and soon found out that wasn't going to get it, don't get me wrong, it was working but a little lacking at the bottom. Worked my way down to 8T/72T sprockets for 9:1 rear with a chinese TC and Comet belt. Still had just a hair of a flat spot so I changed the driver spring to engage at about 2300 rpm instead of the stock 2500. Love it. Governor spring set 1 hole over for about 4200 max rpm.
Point is, sure I only have a top speed of about 27 mph, maybe a little more after the belt gets a liitle wear and sucks down into the rivet section of the chinese driven but the only time I ever max out rpm and speed is for the couple of minutes I'm on the dirt road or blacktop. Or I'm chasing cows across the pasture.
Most of the rest of the time it's low and slow toting tools, feed, fencing material, and whatever else. Inspecting fence lines, checking the pond, tooling thru the woods at 2400/2500 rpm. 15 mph across a cow trod pasture is like hitting the moguls on a dirt bike. Then again, I'm officially old now, I just got on Medicare. .
I suggested the 223 because you bought a pig heavy bike to use mostly for a work bike. Don't get me wrong. I love pig heavy bikes. I couldn't find one to suit my needs without excess modifications so I built one. Tilts the scales at about 180 lbs. I call it Farm Hog for a reason. It's built for work. It did wind up being heavier than anticipated.
Stock Pred 212, 19" tires. Thought about a 223/224 in it. Should have, I cheaped out.
Doesn't bother me. Dabbled with header and intake, extra power was nice but I didn't like the sound so I went back stock. Could have bumped compression but I'm lazy and didn't want the down time. I use it all year, what passes for winter in central texas doesn't stop me.Started out with a 60T rear sprocket and soon found out that wasn't going to get it, don't get me wrong, it was working but a little lacking at the bottom. Worked my way down to 8T/72T sprockets for 9:1 rear with a chinese TC and Comet belt. Still had just a hair of a flat spot so I changed the driver spring to engage at about 2300 rpm instead of the stock 2500. Love it. Governor spring set 1 hole over for about 4200 max rpm.
Point is, sure I only have a top speed of about 27 mph, maybe a little more after the belt gets a liitle wear and sucks down into the rivet section of the chinese driven but the only time I ever max out rpm and speed is for the couple of minutes I'm on the dirt road or blacktop. Or I'm chasing cows across the pasture.
Most of the rest of the time it's low and slow toting tools, feed, fencing material, and whatever else. Inspecting fence lines, checking the pond, tooling thru the woods at 2400/2500 rpm. 15 mph across a cow trod pasture is like hitting the moguls on a dirt bike. Then again, I'm officially old now, I just got on Medicare.
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