Muskin Dune Cat Find! (Help Needed!)

#21
OK guys, hold up a second. Not ALL of us agree that one should summarily order a replacement Chinese made carb instead of rebuilding the original Tecumseh carb. There are people here who will gladly take any of your old Tecumseh carburetors off of your hands.

I have gone the Chinese carb route beginning six years ago when I started on this hobby. That is many engines ago now. They have not lived up to what one would assume a carb should live up to. I have cited the reasons for this several times now, and blame cheap construction, alcohol gasoline (and water build up and corrosion) and my hot weather environment. I AM TIRED OF REBUILDING CHINESE CARBS. I'm not saying this to start another pissing contest, or have some old hairy fat dude start blustering his expertise. Oh wait. That's me. :laugh: Rebuild these carbs.

By the way, there is no ball inside of them that shakes. I have removed all of the plugs, cleaned them, and rebuilt them, and there are no balls. That rattling sound is the float bouncing around against the needle, speaking of which, when you rebuild them, don't forget to remove that microscopic o ring at the bottom of the float valve needle. There is nothing under those plugs, but it does make them easier to clean and blow out. Replace by seating the new plugs with a flat driver, and a tad of permatex. (etc) No rubber sealant.

Manny, great point about checking that float for pin holes.

I have no interest in spending anyone's money, nor anything against a ten dollar carburetor. I'm just saying they are not of the same quality that the Tecumseh carburetors are, and your gas pump gas will corrode them faster than a OEM carb, and they have adjusting issues, where there are inherent air leaks on the pilot (low speed) system requiring some of them to be adjusted with the idle needle almost seated.
 
#22
I was always told if you didn't here the rattle in the emulsion tube you was toast. I have to admit that I probably rebuilt my Rupp carb 6 times before I learned that. That Rupp never ran right back in the 70's. Then I took it off the bike again and gave it a shake. (holding the float). No rattle. Bought a new carb and put it on the bike and it ran great. I did tell him to save the old carb for a future re-build. If he wants to get riding quick before the summer is over, I think a 10.00 investment is his best bet.:thumbsup:
 
#23
I did all of that and everything was great! the only issues i have with the carb i have is that its not original, hence why the gas tank is not where its supposed to be, it used to be attached BELOW the carburetor,and the needle screws in the carburetor are worn out horribly. My plan is just to get a whole new carburetor and fix the gas tank issue, then i need to get a new body for it, longer than original because I'm tall for my age, then i need to build or pay someone to build a new chassis, hopefully one with an engine roll cage in case things go plaid on one of my rides, an i want to get a new muffler, preferably one of the original "Pancake" mufflers. My father was great and helped me get her up and stable for the most part, but we did find out that the governor doesn't have the spring it needs to pull it back to idle, the carburetor isn't connected to the throttle lever correctly, the lever is attached to the engine hull by a screw and a spring, which doesn't work. the kill switch was out but that's an easy fix. The throttle lever is supposed to connect to the carburetor throttle with a spring but it doesn't.
But! She runs! Not well, but she idles and well... throttle doesn't work but i need springs, and i have no idea where to find them.

Maybe you can make more sense from these pictures!



Other than that, so far you guys are a great help! keep it up with the answers, they are seriously helping me with my first go cart restoration!
 
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#26
Hello Liviflame. Congrat's on your find.

Above you mention this is your first go kart restore, and that you wanted to build a longer chassis, and the get a new longer body.

Something you may want to keep in mind...the Dune Cat is not really a 'go-kart' in my opinion. Although it does have 4 wheels like a go cart.

Here's what I'm getting at, and folks, please chime in...Muskin built these to look like a small 'dune buggy'...similar to the fiberglass bodied kit car VW Dune Buggy's from the 60's and 70's.

The Dune Cat has a much higher center of gravity than a go kart, as well as possibly shorter wheel base as you'd realized. I'm not trying to criticize your machine...in fact, the opposite, I don't want to see you destroy a beautiful example of a Muskin Dune Cat.

Get that thing running and enjoy it...!

When you do ride it....be careful turning, especially on pavement, with the high center of gravity, and short wheel base, combined with the knobby rear tires, they appear to flip easily if turned too tight of a radius, too fast (imo).

Again, congratulations, and keep us posted.
 
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#27
Something you may want to keep in mind...the Dune Cat is not really a 'go-kart' in my opinion. Although it does have 4 wheels like a go cart.

Here's what I'm getting at, and folks, please chime in...Muskin built these to look like a small 'dune buggy'...similar to the fiberglass bodied kit car VW Dune Buggy's from the 60's and 70's.
Thanks for that Robert. I was reading this thread yesterday after I posted my blather about rebuilding a carburetor, when I read he planned on lengthening the chassis and blending and lengthening the body. Kinda got a sick feeling in my stomach.

These machines aren't made any more. There aren't a lot of them around in this good of condition.

Maybe sell the Dune Cat, and get a used Manco go kart. They're much more stable, safer, faster, better handling, and cheaper.
 

markus

Well-Known Member
#28
OK guys, hold up a second. Not ALL of us agree that one should summarily order a replacement Chinese made carb instead of rebuilding the original Tecumseh carb. There are people here who will gladly take any of your old Tecumseh carburetors off of your hands.

I have gone the Chinese carb route beginning six years ago when I started on this hobby. That is many engines ago now. They have not lived up to what one would assume a carb should live up to. I have cited the reasons for this several times now, and blame cheap construction, alcohol gasoline (and water build up and corrosion) and my hot weather environment. I AM TIRED OF REBUILDING CHINESE CARBS. I'm not saying this to start another pissing contest, or have some old hairy fat dude start blustering his expertise. Oh wait. That's me. :laugh: Rebuild these carbs.

By the way, there is no ball inside of them that shakes. I have removed all of the plugs, cleaned them, and rebuilt them, and there are no balls. That rattling sound is the float bouncing around against the needle, speaking of which, when you rebuild them, don't forget to remove that microscopic o ring at the bottom of the float valve needle. There is nothing under those plugs, but it does make them easier to clean and blow out. Replace by seating the new plugs with a flat driver, and a tad of permatex. (etc) No rubber sealant.

Manny, great point about checking that float for pin holes.

I have no interest in spending anyone's money, nor anything against a ten dollar carburetor. I'm just saying they are not of the same quality that the Tecumseh carburetors are, and your gas pump gas will corrode them faster than a OEM carb, and they have adjusting issues, where there are inherent air leaks on the pilot (low speed) system requiring some of them to be adjusted with the idle needle almost seated.
Its not a ball, its a metering rod/pin. Its in the idle/intermediate circuit and its found in most common series 1 type adjustable carburetors that were typical on the small and medium frame engines that Tecumseh used for the recreational engines. The diaphragm carbs had an actual check ball in them. The pin/rod (and even the check ball in the Dia carb for that matter) is not supposed to be a removable item, but it could possibly be done if you want to plug up the hole that you have to drill to get to it.

If you dont hear that "rattle" that means that rod is stuck somewhere in the idle/intermediate circuit possibly plugging one or the other or leaving both of them open at the same time. They are a bitch to get moving again when they get frozen or crusted or gooed up but it can be done with some effort and actually worth doing in the long run.

Wanna see it, if you have one that "rattles" onhand (even the china ones have them) Take out the idle adjustment needle and shine a light in the hole while in the standard upright postion, then flip the carb upside down and shine the light in the hole again and you will see the little rod plugging up the passage to the other side of the carb that goes into the the bore. which is something thats important to note: DONT INSTALL THE ADJUSTMENT NEEDLE WHILE THE CARB IS UPSIDE DOWN!!!

Oh and that little O-ring is the needle seat. They are on genuine Tec carbs, the chine ones use a rubber tip on the needle instead so those parts dont cross. The needle seat SHOULD NOT have ANY TYPE OF SEALANT put on it, in fact they say to use a little oil or lube to help install it. and it needs to go in grooved side down into the body of the carb........all this info can be found in the Tecumseh service manual.
 
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#29
Don't install the adjustment needle when the carb is upside down. Lol. Noted to self.

It's your dune cat but I wouldn't be cutting that nice vintage cart all up. Clean it up and sell it to a vintage collector and buy yourself something bigger. That cart made it 50 years in that nice condition.
 
#30
Its not a ball, its a metering rod/pin..
Markus, excellent post, and I stand corrected on the metering rod! I apply sealant by the way to the Welsh Plugs, NOT the needle seat. Sealant is applied per the book. My post was to detail why an original carb should be rebuilt, and I should have referenced the manual before writing anything. Like I used to do.

When I first got here six plus years ago, I was a decent mechanic, electrician, and window washer. When I heard that a carburetor that would not rattle was grounds for tossing it in the trash, and ordering a ten dollar replacement was considered the way to go, I was dumbfounded.

At any rate, thank you for educating me, and Karen, I can definitely see why you wouldn't insert the low speed jet with the carb upside down. I will ensure I never do that in the future. :thumbsup:

Here is where the needle lays along it's path in the carburetor.

Carb Jet.JPG

Here is the metering rod you referred to, which engages the taper of the needle and floats up and down on it by vacuum I assume where the vacuum pulls fuel from the bowl into the idle transfer port on the bowl nut.

carb metering.JPG
 
#31
Thank you all for the lovely insight and constructive criticism!

While I may change my mind about altering the carts original shape and length, I still need a new body and chassis nonetheless. since the body has significant spider-webbing and the chassis needs work, including the steering and overall support.

The roll bar that is holding the gas tank up is not original. It was added by some kids probably after they rolled it and knocked off the old tank. they managed to cut two holes for the bar to go through, so even if i want to clean the body up or replace it and sell the old one to a collector, i need to get at that bar with a saw of some kind.

I really want to keep this thing in real nice condition, trust me i do. But i want to work out what needs to get done. that includes finding someone who can rebuild or mold a new body and get the same "metal flake" paint job.

Which of course i know of no one that does this. The cart says it was sold and serviced by Chanute Suzuki of Chanute KS, but the number is inactive and I'm pretty sure Chanute Suzuki is out of business. If anyone knows anyone who can remold and make a brand new body and or chassis, let me know please!
 
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#34
Price wouldn't be an issue, bu i just got a pm back from Keisler! hooray! so if he isn't going it or the price really is THAT high, Ill have to check :) thank you so much guys!
 
#35
Price wouldn't be an issue, bu i just got a pm back from Keisler! hooray! so if he isn't going it or the price really is THAT high, Ill have to check :) thank you so much guys!
If you get bored, check out Craigslist for Arizona, then subheading Mohave County and search for dune buggies. There are projects that pop up now and then for about the same money, except that they are street legal, do 80 MPH, and have a timeless cool factor about them.

You can get a fully functioning and street licensed sand rail here for peanuts as well. No need for go karts.
 
#36
If you get bored, check out Craigslist for Arizona, then subheading Mohave County and search for dune buggies. There are projects that pop up now and then for about the same money, except that they are street legal, do 80 MPH, and have a timeless cool factor about them.

You can get a fully functioning and street licensed sand rail here for peanuts as well. No need for go karts.
Awesome, Thanks for the lead, Ill Check it out to see what i can find here in the coming weeks!
 
#39
Called them three times and left a message, hopeful to get a call back soon! :)

Edit! He got back to me and gave me his personal email, hoping he can get a mold for it, if not he said we'll have something to go off of since the dune cat i have has a body in "Decent" shape
 
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