New guy with Serengeti Motorsports Puma

[Clyde]

Hi all! I have been lurking here a while and thanks to some great information from you folks, I have purchased a new Serengeti Puma from my local Rural King store. Serengeti Motorsports Puma 200 Mini Bike 6.5 HP America's Farm & Home Store

I bought it to replace my tired (and tiny) 74' Honda Z50. I looked over all the fat-tired offerings @ Big Dawgs, Baja's, and even the Rokons'.
The Puma was dead on what I needed for my budget and my terrain. I am currently breaking the motor in, changing oil, tightening bolts, removed the bogus tank, and generally adjusting what ever needs adjusting. So far it has exceeded my expectations. At 6' 1" and 186lbs it rides me fine on snow and muddy woodland paths (my buddy rode at 6'4" 230lbs and it didn't miss a beat haulin' him around).
I was surprised to see that it came with a stock jack-shaft and a CARB 196cc motor with lighting coil.
I will GPS it at max speed soon. Also am equipping it with a tiny-tach for hour meter and rpm readings. At this point I feel I need to slow it down somewhat and may change the gearing to focus on lower speed torque (I don't need it to do more than 15MPH as I ride river-bottom fields and swamps). Maybe find some tire chains for it too, mud is very slick.
I hope to take some pics soon, let me know if you all need pic-shot of some feature.
Thanks again for providing such a fine resource as this forum!:thumbsup:

 

[DZLBIKE]

Welcome! Be sure to share what you learn about your bike. Enjoy yourself.

 

[C9H13NO3]

Welcome! Someone else on this forum has that bike (I think it is RobK) and he said he really likes it. As for the torque problem, drop in a Torque Converter and you will have all the torque you will ever need :thumbsup:

 

[Clyde]

Welcome! Someone else on this forum has that bike (I think it is RobK) and he said he really likes it. As for the torque problem, drop in a Torque Converter and you will have all the torque you will ever need :thumbsup:

Do you think that changing jack-shaft gears or rear sprocket would be cheaper?
{looks like clutch sprocket is 10 tooth --- outer jack shaft is 20 tooth ---inner JS is 10 tooth--- and final rear sprocket on wheel is 50 tooth ... 19X7-8 tires)

[/IMG]

 

[C9H13NO3]

Do you think that changing jack-shaft gears or rear sprocket would be cheaper?
{looks like clutch sprocket is 10 tooth --- outer jack shaft is 20 tooth ---inner JS is 10 tooth--- and final rear sprocket on wheel is 50 tooth ... 19X7-8 tires)

[/IMG]

Yes, changing the gears would be MUCH cheaper.

 

[Clyde]

Epinephrine: thanks for the reply!
Any suggestions on which sprocket would be "best" to swap (easiest, cheapest, less hassles)?
Hard to tell shaft diameter exactly without measuring with a caliper, but shafts looks to be 5/8" (but they may measure metric).

 

[C9H13NO3]

Epinephrine: thanks for the reply!
Any suggestions on which sprocket would be "best" to swap (easiest, cheapest, less hassles)?
Hard to tell shaft diameter exactly without measuring with a caliper, but shafts looks to be 5/8" (but they may measure metric).

You are the second person to figure out what the chemical formula is for, here is a link to a jackshaft calculator that will help you figure out what you need.

Burris Racing Jackshaft Calculator

 

[johnp19]

Clyde,

I also just purchased a Puma from Rural King. Unfortunately the closest store is about 350 miles from me. I have not been able to ride mine yet as the spark plug boot was missing. I also found that the jackshaft on the jackshaft assembly on mine is not the right diameter for the souter sprocket. The sprocket is very sloppy on the shaft. Part of the problem stems from the threaded portion of the shaft extending iside the sprocket. I spoke in length with the Rural King store about this. They have had a lot of problems with this and have been trying to get the manufacture to produce the correct parts for repairs. RK went so far as to oput puma jackshaft assemblys on some of the Pumas to get them repaired and back to the customers.

They are supposedly sending me a new shaft. I hope it is the correct size. I will tell you from experience the shafts opn the Baja MB165 series are metric and are larger than 5/8. I put a 40 tooth 35 chain sprocket driven by a 12 tooth clutch sproket on a MB165 and it gave it a lot more torque but I had to machine the 40 tooth pulley to fit. I have not had a chance to measure the Puma shaft but suspect it is also metric. I may make my own shaft that fits the metric bearings but is 5/8's undert the sprockets so I can use standard sprockets. I am also going to have to look at the rear drive chain. I see in the design of the Puma it rubs on a wear plate on top of the swing arm. It may work but it does not seem like the best way to have things although I am not sure there is much that can be done about it.

I wish you luck with the Puma. I defintely have plans to do some work on mine when I get time and the parts. I hope it runs better than the new Baja Warrior I picked up on clearance. It will only run at half choke and then not well. Baja customer service said to run it with the choke on. When i tried to explain that this was not a satisfactory solution due to airflow restrictions and other reasons she became defensive and said that is what we tell everyone. I aam going to change the jets and see if I cannot improve the situation. Hopefully the Puma does not have this problem. I see it is CARB compliant and has all sorts of extra stuff hanging on it.

Again, good luck with your Puma and merry Christmas.

John Poulter

 

[Clyde]

johnp19,
Sorry to hear of your bad luck w/Puma!
You may want to print (hard copy) the info in the link given to Rural King on my first post. They clearly state in the "additional info": "Engine warranty: 1 year Cart warranty: 1 year , SKU 011998004 , Model Puma 200

Rural King is based in USA, Mattoon, Illinois and has a pretty tough product warranty obligation.
* Corporate Office
* 4216 Dewitt Ave
* Mattoon, IL 61938
* Monday - Friday: 8am - 5pm
* Phone: 217-235-7101
* Toll Free: 800-860-8115
* Email: receptionist@ruralking.com

That said: Serengeti Motorsports (Puma)
Warranty site is : upcintl.com - Warranty Registration Form
Product Info is : upcintl.com - Puma 200
The lower "red boxes" links buttons are for PDV versions of the PUMA info-- Product Sheet, Owners Manual, Assembly Manual , Puma Kit Assembly Instructions, and a Parts Manual {as of this writing 12/10 they are almost current, a few pages retain last years version} Service Contact is : upcintl.com - Service

The principle reason I bought the Puma was that Rural King opened a nearby store, and the price was hard to beat as there was no shipping charge. I have a few gray whiskers, so I did a method that has worked well for me in the past.... I called the store ahead of time, reserved a PUMA bike on hold, asked to speak to the guy assembling them and got his name. When I got to the store, I made him show me brakes, gas in tank, and engine oil on dipstick. Then he started the bike, and rode it to my truck. Before I took "possession", I looked over every inch and ask him a ton of questions, especially if any PUMAS' had come back in R-K for repairs. He said 1 earlier one did have a problem in the jack-shaft area requiring parts. I know all this does little to help you know, but maybe a future "buyer" can be enlightened by our experience?

I ran the jack-shaft calculator numbers given in C9H13NO3 post , and also another sites formula to add my tire size (I used 18.75" tire diameter as that is close to 10PSI on the 19x7-8 tires: and a guestimated max engine speed of 3600 rpm) Rawge's Mini Chopper Information Site - Jackshafts . Stock theoretical calc for top speed is ~20MPH. Looks like I can maybe change 1 (or 2 sprockets) to get lower top end down to 14-17mph.

The rub-block is an interesting piece. It is likely used to keep the swing arm from getting rubbed by the drive chain in the various shock positions, and sprung up/down motions. I think it is a good idea. Time will tell how long it last. I have seen similar "rub blocks" last a long-long time, and they were relatively cheap to replace if needed. Sacrificial is the word.

I will check the shaft sizes after holidays to price out my gear options and let others know if they are SAE or Metric size.

The CARB engine is actually quite good choice for that 196cc PUMA, better gas cap & fuel lines may avoid spills better, AND the stock 196cc clone mufflers had a tendency to rust pretty quick versus more expensive CARB cat-converters. That candie-apple red bogus gas tank was nice looking, but made the CARB gas cap a pain to remove and fuel the tank w/out spilling. I boxed my tank for "latter" and pealed off all the funky decals on the frame and stuck them to wax paper (for the future owners).

Finally, I will soon VOM meter that lighting coils output for amps, the headlight has a weird 2 light bulb set-up that puzzles me.

Also odd is the recommendation to run 87 octane plus (Harbor Freight clones of Honda GX200 (196cc-6.5 EPA-CARB rated) say to use 91 octane!}

Good Luck with your Puma too !! These days, the cheaper and easier it is to get new Asian machinery, the more we are burdened with double checking every nut and bolt and doing our own "quality control".

PS--- I agree with you on that Baja problem. No way that choke should be set on anything but open when the new motor reaches operating temps. Sounds maybe like clogged passageways, or improper drilling/jetting from factory?

 

[johnp19]

Clyde and others,

I had a little time today and looked at the Puma jackshaft assembly. It is indeed a metric shaft and bmetric bored sprockets. It is almost indentical to a Baja jackshaft assembly I had laying around. The excessive slop in mine seems to mostly come from a sprocket with an excessivly large bore and the fact that much of the sprocket bore is over the threaded portion of the shaft.

The biggest difference i noted between the Baja and the puma unit was that the Baja has three bearings for the Jackshaft and the Puma only has two. The Baja used shielded bearings and the Puma used sealed bearings. Otherwise they pretty much looked like copies of one another. One item to consider s that these companies may well get there parts from diferent suppliers at different times so what I found may not be the same as what someone else finds.

I am making a shaft to replace the metric shaft that will allow me to use the original metric bearings and 5/8" bore sprockets which are easy to find. All I have left to do is mill the keyway and cut to its final length once I figure out what that should be. Being able to use 5/8" sprockets will make it a lot easier to change the gear ratio.

Take care,

John

 

[Clyde]

Jan 11/11 Update:
I've measured the jack-shaft shafts diameter for the sprockets, I get 5/8" on the rear, shouldered sprockets per pic>>>

 

[RobK]

I bought the Puma as a kit from Northern Tool. It came without engine or jackshaft assembly. I added an HF 6.5, and a GTC torque converter. I had to grind a little to get the TC to fit, but it works great. The only bummer is the lack of a lighting coil on the engine. No biggie though as I plan to mod the engine. I've also now removed the fake gas tank and replaced it with a Chinese Z50 gas tank copy. Fits perfect.

 

[Clyde]

Jan 11/11 Update part 2 .
The stock Puma runs an all out 18.5-20MPH (per GPS) at 3480-3580 RPMS (per digital tachometer) with me as payload (186lbs) on flat/straight asphalt , close enough to sea level, winter air about 30-35degrees F.

The build quality NEEDED a few screws and bolts tightened, the throttle NEEDED adjusting (cable was bumping the exhaust shroud too much) Governor seems a bit week.
I run 86 octane ethanol with fuel stabilizer, runs and starts A-OK .

Overall, the bike is very well designed (note: I avoided the word engineered) as the "design" uses lots of 2010-2011 good Chinese off-the-shelf parts. For instance, it appears the shocks are adjustable 3 ride heights, 5 load positions.

I am currently installing KOLD KUTTER 3/8" tire screws https://koldkutter.com/catalog/products.php?osCsid=a1346aa6d279ff3efd3c8ad35747cce2for extra winter traction , because the tire threads are a little small (extend max 3/8") for mud & snow.

Engine with 6 good hours of run-time very good----so far. Oil drain plug was very tightly installed at factory. Needed cheater pipe on 10mm wrench to remove it.

 

[Clyde]

RobK:
mine came with a 2 sets of odd cabled wires from the stock engine lighting coil, and 2 light bulbs in the headlight. Only 1 bulb seems to work, no big deal but I need to trace the wires better. My KILL-SWITCH wiring that shorts the engine to the frame popped apart WAY too easy. I crimped it tight and electrical-taped it. I suspect that as the nuts/screws/bolts ALL need checking and tightening...so ALL the wiring needs an owners double-check too.

IMHO , no real need for a lighting coil if you have good LED bicycle lights, especially with re-chargeable batteries. My tach is inductive, thus no need for any charge/lighting coils, or external bike batteries :>>

Changed original oil (1/2 quart 30W) at first half hour. Using 10W-30 now. Will change every 1-3 hours till 5 hours: then switch to 10W-30 synthetic or blend.
I need to gear this bike lower geared, to get better hill & trail performance. Thinking a 8-9 tooth inner jack-shaft gear (stock is 10-T), mated to a 60-70 tooth rear sprocket (stock is 50-T)

{PS---thanks for the tip on the Z50 tank:thumbsup: I have a stock 1974 Z50 I may test swap the tank on!}

 

[RobK]

We never hooked up the light, since I don't have the lighting coil. I'll have to look closer at it. We didn't have the problem with loose screws, since it came as a kit and my sone and I put it together. Overall, I'd give the design a B+, the engineering a B-, and construction a C+. I like the beefy frame, tall riding position, and ground clearance. It's much more rideable and fun than our Mini Baja. The only real problem we had was we kept breaking the chain master link. After much fiddling, aligning, and cursing, I realized the kick stand was riding against the chain. An easy fix, but it drove me nuts for a bit. The tank is from a Chinese copy of a late '70s, early '80s Z50R I think. See the link below. I bought 2 for $25 each. Now I just have to find the right gas cap. All I had to do was drill through the upper frame tube and mount a couple of rubber blocks. Fit like a glove.

SCOOTER TANK

 

[Clyde]

RobK
A bit off topic BUT:
IMHO-The bicycle, or sports/camping low voltage L.E.D. lights make a lot of sense for seeing a mini-bike.

Since many MB's are not street legal, the factory lights are pretty bogus, and not much stability for night riding (they dim and fade,they jiggle etc).
You can get (or make) several (Direct Current, low voltage LED) headlamp/tail lamp set-ups from the off-the-shelf bicycle camping LED lights available. They are such LOW power sucking lights that they just need re-chargeable batteries for most use. The red tail lamp and white (or colored!) headlamps give an excellent safety note for kids , and they can even flash enough to get attention of a vehicle driver. Enough LED's, in enough places, and your bike can look like a Big Rig trucker.

I use extra LED hat lights at night on the minibike. Let's me see the trails better. I put a red flasher LED on the bike when I let the kids ride, & so I can see the little devils as they ride off out of yelling range.:scared:

Thanks for the tank link! Gallons-Per-Hour ratings from a stock Honda GX200 (the basis of our clone motors) say to expect fuel consumption under "actual use" of about 3.5 Hours per .95 gallons of gas (no rpm average was listed).
My stock tank is .95 gallons, so I may hold off on an extra tank for a while. My tachometer also has an "hour Meter" built-in. I shall test the gas mileage to see apx. gallons per hour on the 196cc clone. I am averaging about 2400-2600 rpm's per 1 hour ride on my PUMA.

EDIT: on my "assembled by Rural King" version, I give straight "B" grades thusfar. The fitment issues of the rear chain, and jack-shaft seem pretty good on mine, as my rear chains slides over a plastic "rider" piece on the swing-arm that has NO wear , so far. Kickstand, etc, fit was pre-determined . Things that I would like changed, like foot pegs are not the fault of the PUMA, just my big feet.

 

[RobK]

EDIT: on my "assembled by Rural King" version, I give straight "B" grades thusfar. The fitment issues of the rear chain, and jack-shaft seem pretty good on mine, as my rear chains slides over a plastic "rider" piece on the swing-arm that has NO wear , so far. Kickstand, etc, fit was pre-determined . Things that I would like changed, like foot pegs are not the fault of the PUMA, just my big feet.

The foot pegs do seem a bit flimsy, but I've not had a problem. That plastic rider piece bothered me at first, but it doesn't seem to be a problem. I like the idea of LED lights. Overall I'm pleased. One thing I'd like to add is a front brake.

They used to say never buy a car built on a Monday or Friday. The implication being that the factory workers were recovering from the weekend on Monday and distracted by the upcoming weekend on Friday, and not doing their best work. That describes the Chinese stuff to a T. The construction and build quality varies wildly. You just never know. Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you don't.

 

[Clyde]

YEP!
X2 on the front brake. My rear band is already squealing a bit; a front brake would be an extra I would gladly add, or pay for :thumbsup:

{I looked into an electric motor hub for braking, and 2-wheel drive, so far I can't find one wide enough ... I still dream of those Rokons!}

At the bikes 142lbs dry weight, plus an adult rider on the 19 X 7-8 tires ... it does need better stopping power. Lot's of mass to stop quickly with a single brake.

The pegs with the little "skid plate " is a neat idea. I have already used the "skid plate" to run over logs. I wish it were bigger ,and lined with Frog Spit or such. Pegs with steel grips, like my Z50 pegs would be better for me.


Comparing the latter Chinese general builds I have seen, they seem to get better they more they sell, and especially the more their final seller bitches at them for warranty work.
Prices are so-ooooooo tempting for a complete unit, but yeah, buyer-beware.

Having to work on a new bike cause "return shipping" is too expensive is a BITE. That's why I kept the Rural King warranty on mine real close, AND why I hesitate to add too many "custom" items until the day I must rely 100% on my own skill and pocketbook to keep this PUMA running.

I would like to add some mudflaps, and maybe some better tires , and ...... oh, well ...ride the Hell out of IT "stock" first ......

 

[ThomasW]

I'm new to oldminibikes and just bought a Serengeti Puma 200 from generatordepot.us.com

It was $549 shipping included. They shipped super fast and I just got it today. I did the required assembly this afternoon in 98 degree Texas heat. Assembly is supposed to include attaching handlebars, installing front fender and front wheel.

I had to spread the front forks (with shocks) to get the wheel in between.....a bit frustrating. Also, the tires were completely flat, so I had to use a ratcheting strap around them to get the bead to seat so it would hold air. Also, when I removed the valve cap on the rear tire, the valve core just fell out, and I spent 10 minutes trying to find it. Again, these were additional annoyances.

By this time I was getting a bit uneasy about the quality of this machine. Then I noticed that the clutch chain tensioner doesn't work properly and will probably need replacing. Upon further inspection, I saw that the drive chain was sitting outside of the plastic rub block channel. I have no idea how to fix this problem It appears to be a chain alignment problem as the rub block doesn't appear to be adjustable.

It was dinner time, so I stopped working on it for the day. So far, I'm disappointed with my purchase and wanted to let others know.

Anyway, I'm going to call the toll free Serengeti support line tomorrow, but I'm not expecting much help (if any).

I'll post more information as I proceed.

 

[RobK]

I just ordered a second one myself. I've added a front disk brake to the first one. The only real tricky part was the hub to mount the rotor on. My brother-in-law made me one in his shop, but it's thinner than I'd like, and I had a hard time getting it lined up. My welding leaves much to be desired though. The stopping is now great. Right now I have a stock 6.5 clone on it with a GTC torque converter. It will do around 38mph. With some mods I expect to get it up to around 50 which should be fine for off roading. It's a blast to ride off road. Admitadly the design is pretty good, the engineering is okay, and the construction is questionable. But it's only $500, and I can do all the mods I want.