Ohh I’m kind of exited Japanese 2 stroke??

[Thepaetsguy]

1922-Takata Motor Research Institute was founded by Masuzo Takata

1939-Company name was changed to Tokyo Hatsudoki.

Just two years later in 1941 my engine has OMC and the direction of rotation arrow found on American outboard engines from OMC company formed in 1929! But is tagged in Japanese as Tokyo hatsudoki 1941!!

Tokyo hatsudoki was created in 1939 and less then two years later 1941 my little two stroke has to be one one of the first OMC outboard engine they took and re-badged as tokyo hatsudoki

Then I’m guessing copied and made there own molds to cast out there own engines but it was all directly based off American outboards from the 1930’s???

Did Tokyo hatsudoki create the 50 some generator engines Soichiro Honda used to put that A-type motorcycle into production later in 1947??

 

[sparkwizard]

I'm impressed by your research. It makes me wonder if there was some cooperation between them before WW2.

 

[Thepaetsguy]

I'm impressed by your research. It makes me wonder if there was some cooperation between them before WW2.

Took the words right out of my mouth!

The tohatsu history log says

1939　/　Apr Company name was changed to Tokyo Hatsudoki Corporation.

1940 / Apr Deliveries to the military increased with the designation as a jointly controlled plant of the Army and Navy.

The whole time the company existed under the name tokyo hatsudoki they were under control to develop for the war effort..

They took an American boat engine and first re-badged it as Japanese. That’s how you tell the OG engines from the later copies.

I’m 100% betting the later copies were cast from molds made in Japan and were not stamped with English lettering.

I wish I could get my hands on the later examples shown in the pictures below.

If there Is no english lettering/marks that would prove mine was one of the first to be an American OMC re-badged as Tokyo hatsudoki and not one of the later ones actually cast out and made in Japan that would not have any english lettering/marks

 

[Thepaetsguy]

 

[Thepaetsguy]

Extremely similar to my engine is this much smaller early Mikuni

The whole crank/rod assembly looks interesting.

 

[Thepaetsguy]

There’s a mini bike frame 46 miles away I’m gonna throw an offer on it.

I want to put this Japanese engine and transmission onto a mini bike but I’m going to run into so many big hassles.. I‘ve searched and looked but I’m not sure using this transmission to drive ANYTHING is possible currently.

The output on the transmission is SLOPPY because of missing parts. I believe it would be some kind of screw on cap bearing. Someone was saying about whitworth sizes and the output shaft seems to be 13.9mm there’s just no bearings available. I’m not sure how to steady the transmission output.


The engine is piston port and won’t run backwards the output shaft rotation means the transmission would need to be in the front of the bike so I need a jack shaft and chains that would clear the engine.

 

[Thepaetsguy]

Magnificent! Unmentioned in the tohatsu speed challenges A 1943 TBE-60 surfaces in Japan on Facebook. And they pulled the TBE-60 apart to show an early OMC/EvinRude coil.

I have also highlighted the various differences between my engine and the other examples online.

Documentation starts from the company with the TFB-60 in 1945 then goes on to the TFL and the TFO in the later years. ZERO MENTION of the war time models?

 

[Thepaetsguy]

And the Tokyo Hatsudoki 1943 TBE-60 coil is Mitsubishi?

 

[Thepaetsguy]

I wonder what the deal is with the company history?

It clearly says ”designed the new TFP a 98cc engine with integrated transmission and a kickstart? The VERY NEXT sentence says this 98cc TFO 2 speed geared engine was named the bumble bee? So was it the TFP or the TFO??

A guy I’m talking to believes the TFA-50 2 speed geared engines like my example were built or they are re-badged OMC in 1941 and used for the war. But went on to be re-badged a second time later as the TFO or TFP 2 speed geared engine for the bumblebee.

He thinks mine was one that slipped through the cracks and never made it to be re-badged as a bumblebee.

 

[Thepaetsguy]

Could the trumpet be a mechanical whistle? I thought of like lifeguard whistles and figured you unscrew the knob that opens up a port on the crankcase and that crankcase pressure through the port runs a whistle?

The bottom nuts still have the cotter pins in them it‘s been sealed since 41 and I don’t want to take it apart and have pieces fall in the crankcase.

I might take the engine off the mount tip it upside down and just undo the flute from the engine. I’m curious as to what it does.

 

[cl350rr]

Possibly to prime the engine?

 

[Thepaetsguy]

Possibly to prime the engine?

There is the big siren looking trumpet on the crankcase under the jug that has a knob on it to tighten/loosen. Just a guess but I wondered if it’s a crankcase driven mechanical siren/whistle.

Then there is an actual primer bulb in the cylinder head. I don’ know if I mentioned this in previous posts but it is the same primer bulb in the head on my engine as the Honda engines from four years later.

 

[sparkwizard]

Those brass fittings with the thumb screw and spring look like they are designed to rotate. Can you raise and lower the trumpet?
It's too far from the bottom on the block to be an oil drain. Again, I respect your research!

 

[Thepaetsguy]

Those brass fittings with the thumb screw and spring look like they are designed to rotate. Can you raise and lower the trumpet?
It's too far from the bottom on the block to be an oil drain. Again, I respect your research!

It did rotate when I first received the engine. The trumpet was able to be moved up and down about 90* Doesn’t want to budge anymore. I’m pulling it apart today to get to the bottom of what that trumpet actually does.

 

[cl350rr]

When I said priming, i was thinking more along the lines of blowing out the crankcase before starting. in my experience most things shaped like that are for expelling air (gasses) or pouring in liquids.

 

[sparkwizard]

I am thinking about oil accumulating in the lower crank case. There is a little brass plate with a screw holding it in place, down low on the case.
I wonder if the trumpet turns up to allow fuel or solvent to be poured in and drained through that brass cover.

 

[Thepaetsguy]

Gives me some hope because I figured no images of the TFL bike existed. Maybe one day an image of the original machine my TFA-50 powered will surface.

Still no images of the TFO 2 speed gear engine to see if it used the style gearbox I have.

 

[sparkwizard]

13.9mm is not far from 9/16 inches. Maybe a 9/16 bearing and some red Loctite would support it.
Please explain why a piston port 2 cycle engine won't run backward? Other than the ignition advance, which is pretty easy, why won't it run opposite?

 

[Thepaetsguy]

13.9mm is not far from 9/16 inches. Maybe a 9/16 bearing and some red Loctite would support it.
Please explain why a piston port 2 cycle engine won't run backward? Other than the ignition advance, which is pretty easy, why won't it run opposite?

I have actually tried to start this engine the opposite way and the coil does not produce spark when the engine is spinning backwards.

I also noticed it is very close to 9/16 slipping a wrench over the shaft it‘s still has to much play. I’m not sure what to do about the gearbox yet. It‘s cool but seems near useless with that 13.9mm output. I can‘t find pillow blocks to support it or any bearings for that matter.

 

[sparkwizard]

Maybe shim a 9/16 bearing with some soda can strips?
Is there a removable cam on the crankshaft to open the points? I have a few that were made so that cam can be flipped over to advance the timing on the other side of TDC and run the other way.