Performance parts list and Evaluations

MolonLabe420

MolonLabe420

Member
#1
#1
Hey guys, I'm not too new to the site but I recently finally registered.
I have a Coleman CT200U... hoping to get a few more of them.
My primary use for it is hunting/camping and odd jobs around the house, but I am a power junky and love going fast on anything with wheels and an engine! I also have a GX390 sitting around that I'm going to put on another Coleman CT200U (if I can find another one). I'm looking to put a performance intake, exhaust and torque converter on the 196 clone and the 390.... Maybe go all out on the 390, depending on how invasive I go

Has anyone done any testing with different performance parts? Like, comparisons between different brands?
I've seen several companies trying to sell their products as "Max Torque" this and "Max Power" that... but you other car guys out their know that sometimes you get better results with a TrickFlow/Edelbrock/Comp setup vs an all TrickFlow setup (per-say on the name brands).... basically mix and matching parts for the best combo. Anybody know what I'm trying to say?
 
EVOL Tweety Bird

EVOL Tweety Bird

Active Member
#2
#2
Well mines a pit bike, but you can't go wrong with a Chinese TAV, but do buy a quality belt. OldMiniBikes now has a set up for the 196 without lifting the engine.
I have a 212 on mine, so I lifted mine slightly and trimmed the TAV plate. It's night and day different from the old jackshaft set up. Smoother, more torque, and speed.

And if you disable/remove the governor then a billet flywheel and rod are a must,and heavier valve springs are nice. ARC is who I went with, through OldMiniBikes.
 
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DeadPixel

DeadPixel

Member
#3
#3
For the money I think a 3/4" crank, billet rod, GX160 aluminum flywheel, 18 or 22lb springs, gasket set and an EBay torque converter are were I would start. This will give you the largest improvement for the money spent. You will have to lift your motor for this your self. This should run you a little over $225 for every thing. Best bang for buck in my opinion.
 
MolonLabe420

MolonLabe420

Member
#4
#4
What about the carb and intake? I'd like to get rid of the bulky airbox and get one of those elbos to put the filter tucked in towards the rear and out of the way (I dont want it sticking out while riding thru the woods). Can I just rejet my carb with the mods on it and be good to go, or is the stock carb itself junk and worth replacing?

I know which exhaust pipe I want, but which muffler is the quietest?

Whats the difference between the TAV and TC? I know there's 1 that needs the engine lifted, and 1 that doesnt... whats the diff and which is better?
 
DeadPixel

DeadPixel

Member
#5
#5
Any torque converter needs the motor raised. The OldMiniBikes kit comes with a riser plate though and dose not require any cutting. It looks like a great kit. Even comes with a new chain. The stock carb re jeted is fine but you will get more power with a larger carb. I would honestly leave the carb unless your looking at going as far as swapping out the cam. If your only doing some bolt ons I would keep it. I am running a 5-7 HP brigs screw on muffler and it sounds good and might even be quieter than stock. Its too close to tell. I don't think from a HP point of view it's a good muffler. It is about 1/2" inside diameter which is about what the stock muffler was. I should have got a muffler that clamped on the out side of the pipe. The muffler it self is also kinda restrictive. One thing to know about any torque converter is that you will have to measure your crank to see what one you have. Mine was a 16mm. The kit requires a 3/4 shaft crank. You will probably have to order a crank with the swap.
 
MolonLabe420

MolonLabe420

Member
#6
#6
For me, my Coleman isn't a toy, it's a tool! My kids don't ride it so I don't mind spending a few extra dollars on better parts. I'm not looking to go the "cheap Chinese" route. I'd rather avoid China as much as I can...
I'm looking for maximum performance and reliability.
I want the best setup that will get me the most torque for climbing hills/hauling gear, and the torque converter that will hold that power the best.
I would also like to get a billet rod and flywheel so I can raise the RPMs and top speed, I'm just not sure of what all is involved in that kind of swap.
A performance cam and advancing the timing is a no-brainer for adding performance too... but I might as well source all the parts I want 1st and then install them all at once while everything is torn apart.

So I have a ton of thoughts and ideas in my head... here are some of them...

I was looking at this stage 3 kit. If I have to get a 3/4" crank for a TAV, will this kit work with it? Where do I even find a 3/4 crank?
Also, the specs of the kit... is a .265 cam good for low end TQ or higher RPMs? I've seen .308 and .275 lift cams... which is better for what I'm looking for?? And I'd like to raise the compression ratio, is a .01 head gasket thinner than stock?
196cc Performance Engine Kit - Stage 3
Is there a better kit out there for what I'm looking for?

This air fliter (hopefully cheaper somewhere else?)
https://gokartsusa.com/honda-gx160-gx200-performance-air-intake-kn.aspx

This carb
https://gokartsusa.com/High-Performance-Carb-Honda-GX160-GX200-3-1-2-1-1.aspx

This intake manifold - Will this fit with my stock fuel tank??
https://gokartsusa.com/Mikuni-22-Inverted-Intake-Manifold.aspx

This exhaust
Baja Warrior Header

I'll also be getting on of these to keep an eye on things
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Electronic...ash=item41d60c2927:g:bKYAAOSw~RVaKZt2&vxp=mtr

Are 1.3 rockers worth buying? They are pretty pricey....
https://affordablegokarts.com/colle...160-200/products/1-3-ratio-rocker-arms-billet

Are there any performance heads on the market for the 196 Clone? Is the Honda performance head interchangable?
https://affordablegokarts.com/colle...r-head-14cc-ported-milled?variant=43910198916
Also, will this head stud kit work on the Clone?
https://affordablegokarts.com/colle...de-10-9-bolt-stud-kit-with-washers-dowel-pins

This billet rod says .20 LONGER... whats that good for??
https://affordablegokarts.com/colle...de-10-9-bolt-stud-kit-with-washers-dowel-pins

Is this a stroker crank?
http://www.doverpoweronlinestore.com/catalog/item/8251221/8965485.htm
What about this?
http://www.doverpoweronlinestore.com/catalog/item/8251221/9790464.htm


Also, is there a link to a thumb throttle that will work? I cant find a conversion kit. Am I going to have to rig something up myself?




These are just a few of the parts I've been thinking about. If there's something better, don't roast me, post a link. Thanks!

I would ultimately like to double my power output if I can.

Sorry for so many questions and listings... It should be easy to answer 1 at a time that way tho.
 
MolonLabe420

MolonLabe420

Member
#8
#8
Davis said:
You don’t wanna support china and you bought a coleman WOW!
Click to expand...
I didnt have a choice really... nobody else makes a mini bike worthy of running thru the woods and I dont have $5k for a Rokon!
IF I can get what I want without going thru China, I would prefer. If not, I guess I have to...
 
TheDullCarbide

TheDullCarbide

Active Member
#10
#10
MolonLabe420 said:
I didnt have a choice really... nobody else makes a mini bike worthy of running thru the woods and I dont have $5k for a Rokon!
IF I can get what I want without going thru China, I would prefer. If not, I guess I have to...
Click to expand...
I know exactly what you're saying. Frames can be welded and Americanized. Conrods and flywheels not so much.
 
SAS289

SAS289

Well-Known Member
#13
#13
In your initial post you said you will be using the bike as a work tool that needs to be able to climb hills well and be reliable. Then you are asking about cams. Will you be climbing hills and riding through the woods at 7000 rpm's? My point is that it seems you want to do way more to the engine than what you need for your riding conditions.

Why not just raise compression slightly, get a CL1 cam, and gear to your riding conditions? If you are going with a TAV you would never be able to see the RPM's needed to take advantage of some of the cams you mentioned in trail/work riding situations.

In my opinion the bigger cams plus a TAV equals a drag strip (TAV modded for launch) or high speed (40mph +) riding on an open road. Even if you kept the original gearing can you see yourself screaming through the woods at 7000 rpm's doing 35+ mph?

Sorry if this sounds negative. It's probably because I just don't get it.
 
MolonLabe420

MolonLabe420

Member
#14
#14
SAS289 said:
In your initial post you said you will be using the bike as a work tool that needs to be able to climb hills well and be reliable. Then you are asking about cams. Will you be climbing hills and riding through the woods at 7000 rpm's? My point is that it seems you want to do way more to the engine than what you need for your riding conditions.

Why not just raise compression slightly, get a CL1 cam, and gear to your riding conditions? If you are going with a TAV you would never be able to see the RPM's needed to take advantage of some of the cams you mentioned in trail/work riding situations.

In my opinion the bigger cams plus a TAV equals a drag strip (TAV modded for launch) or high speed (40mph +) riding on an open road. Even if you kept the original gearing can you see yourself screaming through the woods at 7000 rpm's doing 35+ mph?

Sorry if this sounds negative. It's probably because I just don't get it.
Click to expand...
No it's ok, I probably did a crappy job of describing... what I meant to say was I want everything, I want it for free, and I want it now. Isn't this the Socialist Utopia I was promised? :doah:

It's all god tho. I'll give you an example. I drug a buck thru a field and up a stone driveway, probably 1/2 mile total distance. The buck was around 250 lbs and I wedged the antles into the rear bike rack, probably around 150 lbs worth of dead weight physically dragging on the ground holding me back... waaaaay before I got back to the house, the clutch was GLOWING RED!! Yes it worked and got the job done, but barely. I was laking power hardcore up the driveway, and the driveway isn't too crazy... that was also with no other gear on me too. Put a few ammo cans on and fill them with gear and a tent n stuff... it gets heavy. If Im going up a hill with a load, I need the power to do it and something to hold that power without glowing, and eventually giving out. Im not trying to replace the clutch every 1/2 mile of hard use.
But then again, Im not ALWAYS on a hill at a slow creeping speed, thru the woods. I still want a high top speed for when Im at home in the yard and the neighborhood. I dont want to change the gearing because I don't want to scream the engine up my driveway at only 10mph. I also want to be able to boogy down to my neighbors house 3 miles away at around 40mph (The 21" tires Im going to put on will help with that, but it will also hurt the low end power a little too).
I can fit 3 bales of hay on the bike itself and then I can fit another 4 on my wagon that I tow. The bike struggles to tow that out thru a small field. Getting going from a dead stop is tough on it too.
Horsepower and torque is the name of the game!! Thats how I can accomplish my goals. I just need to boost the power and be able to put it to the ground.

What RPM do these TAVs and TCs and Clutches lock up at? Im not looking for a converter that doesnt lock up until 5k... Something maybe like stock, but STRONG.

If my stock 196 Clone is making 6.5hp, thats probably 6.5@5k. So when Im trying to take it slow up a hill, I need more than 1-2hp@1-3k. So if I can double my hp@5-7k, I should have enough low RPM power to still pull something up a hill at a slow speed... in therory.

Did I lose you again? Maybe Im lost...:eek:ut:

Oh and, I am looking for a cam thats better for low end torque.... which specs are best for that? CL1 and MOD2 cams give you ZERO info about it... Do they even come with a camcard?
 
TheDullCarbide

TheDullCarbide

Active Member
#15
#15
A 6.5 HP clone makes 6.5 HP at 3600rpm, its governed speed.

I agree that you still want a torquey cam. The CL1 would be fine.

And TAVs can be modded to spin up way past the stock 3600rpm. Garters, weights, contra...keep the TAV in your list.
 
SAS289

SAS289

Well-Known Member
#16
#16
Oh wow.... Yeah if you want the 35+ speeds you should keep the TAV on your list. You can get that kind of speed with a TAV on a bone stock engine in a Coleman.

As far as the HP goes, you can get up to 2HP (at 3600 rpm) more than the manufactures suggested rating of 6.5 for these clone engines with improved breathing and a jet change.

https://www.kartpartsdepot.com/product_p/002.htm

The article can give you an idea of where the power is on a jetted stock clone engine. If you notice, the power drops off because the engine starts leaning out with its stock cam. Bigger cams provide more fuel to allow higher rpm and keep the power on. I still think for what you are doing you don't need high rpm's. You should do a simple mild build with a TAV. If you are still unhappy then start changing the gearing.
 
MolonLabe420

MolonLabe420

Member
#17
#17
Thats a pretty good article, thanks.

I still want to upgrade everything, and then rejet it...

Like I said before, I dont want to change the gearing. I want lots of torque down low to do things AND high top speeds for the road.
I'm a car guy who has always been obsessed with speed and power.... I know I can get what I want by building a higher hp engine, thats what I'm looking to do here! I just looking for the best parts combo to build more power.
 
trinik7597

trinik7597

Active Member
#19
#19
You deffinetly need a Tav for what you are trying to accomplish no clutch is going to do this .. Knowing that is your starting point . then build your motor accordingly . your final drive is going to limit top speed . I see a lot of recommendations for stock lift cams not the route I would take !!! We race trikes up here and they are heavy plus I am not a small guy ... I can tell you what my motor consists of for torque and good top speed
Honda gx200 same as your clone
Arc stock length rod
Older arc flywheel with no timing advance set to 28°
Honda z4m flat top piston sitting 10 in the hole
Polished and lightened crank
Stock 22cc head stainless valves 25/24
With 26# springs
Champion rockers
18 head gasket
.670 sa bored carb
Isky mamba Jr cam
Staged header with some good bend on it for back pressure
You build something like this you will be capable of doing what you want
 
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