I worked on a predator yesterday for the farmer down the road (used on a water pump). No compression. He said it was a new engine that had maybe an hour of run time on it. No compression. It had a stuck exhaust valve. At first I thought it was a bent valve stem. Then I put a few drops of 30 weight oil on the stem and worked it back and forth. Once I got it to move I drained the oil. It was shimmering with fine metal debris. He ran it right out of the box with the cheap Chinese oil. I blame the cheap oil. I thought of this post when I saw that oil. It tells me breaking in the motor with the correct oil is an important thing to do.
Predator 212 - Breaking In - Most important part of an engines life.
Chances are that you would have seen the debris on the first oil change whether there was a problem or not, and quality of oil or not. I would never run an out of the box new Predator until I opened it up and cleaned the garbage out first. I have 3 pre Predator harbor freight engines (Greyhound) that I opened up new. All had the shimmering fine metal debris inside the block. And while I was in there I checked the rod bolt torque.
2 of the Greyhounds are low hour utility engines. Both got Dollar General oil when new and never went through any break in process. That oil got changed last year. The oil was 7+ years old and still looked good enough to be saved for the oil can. I'm not saying Dollar General oil is a quality oil. I just have the opinion that the quality of oil used in these cheap engines, especially if you are going to run them stock, isn't that important at all. If you just put $200+ into building your $100 engine and are going to be running 7K+ RPM's, sure use a better quality oil.
2 of the Greyhounds are low hour utility engines. Both got Dollar General oil when new and never went through any break in process. That oil got changed last year. The oil was 7+ years old and still looked good enough to be saved for the oil can. I'm not saying Dollar General oil is a quality oil. I just have the opinion that the quality of oil used in these cheap engines, especially if you are going to run them stock, isn't that important at all. If you just put $200+ into building your $100 engine and are going to be running 7K+ RPM's, sure use a better quality oil.
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I don't add zinc, I use an oil that has a higher zinc content in it...for flat tappet engines...and unless you have roller lifters, I believe the Predator engines come with flat tappets
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/...MI5OGN9I2Q2wIVRtbACh1xlg4fEAQYBCABEgL6RvD_BwE
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/...MI5OGN9I2Q2wIVRtbACh1xlg4fEAQYBCABEgL6RvD_BwE
Hmmm. If I were a zinc enthusiast I would use an oil with better wear protection. More zinc does not mean better. Note the psi values.
10W30 Lucas Hot Rod & Classic Hi-Performance Oil, conventional = 62,538 psi
zinc = 2116 ppm
10W30 Valvoline VR1 Conventional Racing Oil (silver bottle) = 103,505 psi
zinc = 1472 ppm
Source: https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/
10W30 Lucas Hot Rod & Classic Hi-Performance Oil, conventional = 62,538 psi
zinc = 2116 ppm
10W30 Valvoline VR1 Conventional Racing Oil (silver bottle) = 103,505 psi
zinc = 1472 ppm
Source: https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/
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Wow. This is EXACTLY the post I was going to make, including a comparison of those two oils. I deleted it, because oil posts develop into pissy threads, full of opinion and light on facts.
But isn't it interesting that twice the zinc is half the film strength? Either someone is lying about zinc content, testing was flawed, or the superiority between the mineral oil and the synthetic is that vast.
I had an engine built years ago by an Endurance Race builder. (Boats) BBC (468) dyno over 600 hp 600 torque. The oil he recommended was VR1 break in, 30 mins on the water below 5000 RPM, then VR1 black, and I ran it often at over 8000 RPM on a jet boat.
I use Mobile 1 30wt in my 67 440 magnum, and my newer cars. None of them are hot rodded.
With a lawn mower engine? Cheap dynosaur, change the oil one hour intervals. If I had a high dollar OHV, I'd run the Mobile 1, or the VR1.
But isn't it interesting that twice the zinc is half the film strength? Either someone is lying about zinc content, testing was flawed, or the superiority between the mineral oil and the synthetic is that vast.
I had an engine built years ago by an Endurance Race builder. (Boats) BBC (468) dyno over 600 hp 600 torque. The oil he recommended was VR1 break in, 30 mins on the water below 5000 RPM, then VR1 black, and I ran it often at over 8000 RPM on a jet boat.
I use Mobile 1 30wt in my 67 440 magnum, and my newer cars. None of them are hot rodded.
With a lawn mower engine? Cheap dynosaur, change the oil one hour intervals. If I had a high dollar OHV, I'd run the Mobile 1, or the VR1.
Another question that comes to mind is, what lawn mower engine will ever see anything near a 60,000 psi breaking point of the oil?
I use Mobil 1 in my cars also. I think I may have been sold by one of the freeze tests similar to this one. Seems like cold starts under 10 degrees are pretty hard on an engine.
[video=youtube;uQ_vxdO_9nc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQ_vxdO_9nc[/video]
I use Mobil 1 in my cars also. I think I may have been sold by one of the freeze tests similar to this one. Seems like cold starts under 10 degrees are pretty hard on an engine.
[video=youtube;uQ_vxdO_9nc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQ_vxdO_9nc[/video]
I have to admit, the only reason I have ever used Mobile 1 was because they were the first synthetic I tried. It was the 80's, and it was a great ad campaign. At about the same time, I tried Amsoil. It was only available by individual sellers like Amway and the like. Saw a demonstration at a swap meet and took home a few bottles. Put some in my Kawasaki KZ, and it was so effective, I had to turn the idle down.
At this stage of my life, I am changing oil because of the calendar, not the miles.
In the late 80's or early 90's, Popular Mechanics did an article on ten cars with over 100,000 miles on them, that were at least 20 years old. They sent out questionnaires to respondents with vehicles in those parameters and compiled the results.
The one thing they all had in common was frequent oil changes, with an "average" of 1500 miles between changes. I'm no Scientist, but it has always seemed to me that frequency of oil changes had a far larger impact than the type of oil used.
In my aviation career, we had to send oil and hydraulic samples to laboratories at hour-based intervals for testing. We'd get results on the break-down, as well as the metallic particles. It took all of the guess-work from determining which parts were going to fail. We would also do this when certain parts did fail. All of that, and we still performed mag. plug inspections with ohm meters.
So I suppose it's a fair question to ask about these small engines, turning high RPM, but for the most part, there is a lot of misconception and snake oil tossed in there. The only reason I looked into what Eric had posted was because I clicked on it, and said, "hey, I've been to Lucas car and drag boat events, and look, they have Classic Car oil!" I need Classic Car oil for my Classic Car, and it's also for Hot Rods! My Classic Car was a hot rod back in 1967, I NEED this!"
Only to find that despite being chocked full of zinc, it's a mediocre performer where it counts, especially for $7.99 a bottle, PLUS shipping. Then again, I could buy it, and leave it laying around, so other old dudes could come over and see it and know how much of a hot rodder I am, as well as a classic car guy. Maybe set it on a wooden bench, with a steel funnel, and a shop rag, along with a 1970 MOPAR calendar. Yeah, I could see that. :thumbsup:
At this stage of my life, I am changing oil because of the calendar, not the miles.
In the late 80's or early 90's, Popular Mechanics did an article on ten cars with over 100,000 miles on them, that were at least 20 years old. They sent out questionnaires to respondents with vehicles in those parameters and compiled the results.
The one thing they all had in common was frequent oil changes, with an "average" of 1500 miles between changes. I'm no Scientist, but it has always seemed to me that frequency of oil changes had a far larger impact than the type of oil used.
In my aviation career, we had to send oil and hydraulic samples to laboratories at hour-based intervals for testing. We'd get results on the break-down, as well as the metallic particles. It took all of the guess-work from determining which parts were going to fail. We would also do this when certain parts did fail. All of that, and we still performed mag. plug inspections with ohm meters.
So I suppose it's a fair question to ask about these small engines, turning high RPM, but for the most part, there is a lot of misconception and snake oil tossed in there. The only reason I looked into what Eric had posted was because I clicked on it, and said, "hey, I've been to Lucas car and drag boat events, and look, they have Classic Car oil!" I need Classic Car oil for my Classic Car, and it's also for Hot Rods! My Classic Car was a hot rod back in 1967, I NEED this!"
Only to find that despite being chocked full of zinc, it's a mediocre performer where it counts, especially for $7.99 a bottle, PLUS shipping. Then again, I could buy it, and leave it laying around, so other old dudes could come over and see it and know how much of a hot rodder I am, as well as a classic car guy. Maybe set it on a wooden bench, with a steel funnel, and a shop rag, along with a 1970 MOPAR calendar. Yeah, I could see that. :thumbsup:
Necro-posting here, but this is a big deal.
YIKES.
Unless I am mistaken, the "cheap Chinese oil" you're talking about is just a shot glass amount of preservative/anti-rust/assembly lube they use at the factory. Many metal products are shipped oily but they do NOT fill these or any engines with a full measure of motor oil and then box it up. That is prohibited by many shippers (if not all) as the oil would run out of the engine, oil-soak the box and make a mess as soon as the box tilts or falls on its side instead of always being "This Side Up" like most people think they are handled. Maybe there's other reasons, I'm not sure.
This preservative oil is not in any sense a motor oil. In my experience it is a smelly, thin oil with a pale yellow color. Motor oil is a rich amber color and should be nearly odorless.
This farmer probably saw oil on the dipstick, assumed it was full and then ran it with the 1 ounce of cheap Chinese 3-in-1 oil they use to "pickle it" for shipment. There wasn't enough oil in there to get picked up by the oil slinger so that is why the valve seized--lack of lubrication. Once the valve seized, the engine just quit and saved itself from further catastrophic damage.
I blame the farmer.
I modify your last sentence to read: breaking in the motor with the correct amount of real MOTOR oil is an important thing to do.
YIKES.
Unless I am mistaken, the "cheap Chinese oil" you're talking about is just a shot glass amount of preservative/anti-rust/assembly lube they use at the factory. Many metal products are shipped oily but they do NOT fill these or any engines with a full measure of motor oil and then box it up. That is prohibited by many shippers (if not all) as the oil would run out of the engine, oil-soak the box and make a mess as soon as the box tilts or falls on its side instead of always being "This Side Up" like most people think they are handled. Maybe there's other reasons, I'm not sure.
This preservative oil is not in any sense a motor oil. In my experience it is a smelly, thin oil with a pale yellow color. Motor oil is a rich amber color and should be nearly odorless.
This farmer probably saw oil on the dipstick, assumed it was full and then ran it with the 1 ounce of cheap Chinese 3-in-1 oil they use to "pickle it" for shipment. There wasn't enough oil in there to get picked up by the oil slinger so that is why the valve seized--lack of lubrication. Once the valve seized, the engine just quit and saved itself from further catastrophic damage.
I blame the farmer.
I modify your last sentence to read: breaking in the motor with the correct amount of real MOTOR oil is an important thing to do.