Predator 212 Valve Noise????

#1
I recently bought a few upgrades for a predator 212 non hemi. I got a chikuni, 22 lb valve springs,header pipe, aluminum flywheel. the cam is stock the rod is stock and I kept the stock key in for the flywheel. it is making a sound whenever the valves open and close. I have lashed the valves twice and pulled out and re inserted the pushrods. I domt see any thing binding up inside the crankcase. also another mod is the I have a pulse fuel pump hooked up and the pulse fitting is on the top of the valve cover. I took the valve cover off and it still made the same noise. sorry for my bad explaining skills. thank for the help in advance
 
#2
I recently bought a few upgrades for a predator 212 non hemi. I got a chikuni, 22 lb valve springs,header pipe, aluminum flywheel. the cam is stock the rod is stock and I kept the stock key in for the flywheel. it is making a sound whenever the valves open and close. I have lashed the valves twice and pulled out and re inserted the pushrods. I domt see any thing binding up inside the crankcase. also another mod is the I have a pulse fuel pump hooked up and the pulse fitting is on the top of the valve cover. I took the valve cover off and it still made the same noise. sorry for my bad explaining skills. thank for the help in advance
Is ALL the internal governor parts removed from block???

A push rod bent??
Are pushrods same length??
Pull em back out and roll em on a flat surface, look for bends.

Lash cap(s) installed???
Coil bind in the springs??
Retainer to rocker clearance???
Bent pushrod guide plate???
Valve lash set to .003" ??

If find it best, before setting valve lash, is to make sure head bolts are tightened to torque spec. 17 ft/lbs for stock.
These engines will still run with a leaky head gasket. Sounds like a really low whistle.

Thinner then .045" head gaskets, needs washers under the head bolts for a good seal. These engine are not perfect, when it comes to changing parts, check and then check again.

Since you are using the crankcase vent for fuel pump, do you have another vent for crankcase now???
The crankcase still needs to be vented with a check valve. If not, it will start building too much pressure and pop a seal or gasket.
 

sparkwizard

Well-Known Member
#4
Is it difficult to pull the starter rope slowly? Does it make the noise when just spinning it with no spark plug in it?
My Spidey senses agree with BrownStainRacing.....coil bind
I believe governor is still in it, too.
 
#5
hi everyone thanks for all the suggestions. I have decided to take a video of the problem tommorow to help show you guys. tommorow around noon it will be up
 
#6
Is it difficult to pull the starter rope slowly? Does it make the noise when just spinning it with no spark plug in it?
My Spidey senses agree with BrownStainRacing.....coil bind
I believe governor is still in it, too.
it does still makes the noise with the plug out. what is coil bind. i installed the 22lb springs by using zip ties.
 
#7
it does still makes the noise with the plug out. what is coil bind. i installed the 22lb springs by using zip ties.
It shouldn't have coil bind with stock cam, rockers and 22# springs, but these heads are so different, there could be a burr in the spring pocket, you jus never know, it's best to check.

With the valve completely open, cam at max lift, chk and see if any coils in the spring is touching each other use a feelers gauge to measure. Check both.

Usally coil bind bends push rods, or cracks rockers.

You should be able to pin point the noise by taking 1 push rod out and rotating flywheel.

Keep digging, you will find it.
 
#8
Is ALL the internal governor parts removed from block???

A push rod bent??
Are pushrods same length??
Pull em back out and roll em on a flat surface, look for bends.

Lash cap(s) installed???
Coil bind in the springs??
Retainer to rocker clearance???
Bent pushrod guide plate???
Valve lash set to .003" ??

If find it best, before setting valve lash, is to make sure head bolts are tightened to torque spec. 17 ft/lbs for stock.
These engines will still run with a leaky head gasket. Sounds like a really low whistle.

Thinner then .045" head gaskets, needs washers under the head bolts for a good seal. These engine are not perfect, when it comes to changing parts, check and then check again.

Since you are using the crankcase vent for fuel pump, do you have another vent for crankcase now???
The crankcase still needs to be vented with a check valve. If not, it will start building too much pressure and pop a seal or gasket.
hi thanks for all the great possibilities. let me answer a few of your concerns. first off I did remove all the governer parts including the washer of death lol. I also removed the oil sensor aswell and I did plug up all three holes. I did just takes some videos and photos to help you diagnose my issue. the pushrods are both the same length and are both nice and flat. I am also 90 percent sure my engine didn't come with any lash caps from the factory. it is a brand new non hemi. I honestly don't really know what coil bind is but I did take some pictures of the springs to try to help. I also domt really understand what you mean by retainer to rocker clearance. I have tried my best to help you guys with all the info I can. i will take more pictures and videos tommorow of the crankcase if there may be any issues there. Thanks so much everyone!
EDIT: here are the videos for the valve lash and the sound it's making

https://youtube.com/shorts/-X-F1EmueMo?feature=share
 

Attachments

#9
It shouldn't have coil bind with stock cam, rockers and 22# springs, but these heads are so different, there could be a burr in the spring pocket, you jus never know, it's best to check.

With the valve completely open, cam at max lift, chk and see if any coils in the spring is touching each other use a feelers gauge to measure. Check both.

Usally coil bind bends push rods, or cracks rockers.

You should be able to pin point the noise by taking 1 push rod out and rotating flywheel.

Keep digging, you will find it.
I replied to your original comment with a bunch of info. go check it out !
 
#10
Is ALL the internal governor parts removed from block???

A push rod bent??
Are pushrods same length??
Pull em back out and roll em on a flat surface, look for bends.

Lash cap(s) installed???
Coil bind in the springs??
Retainer to rocker clearance???
Bent pushrod guide plate???
Valve lash set to .003" ??

If find it best, before setting valve lash, is to make sure head bolts are tightened to torque spec. 17 ft/lbs for stock.
These engines will still run with a leaky head gasket. Sounds like a really low whistle.

Thinner then .045" head gaskets, needs washers under the head bolts for a good seal. These engine are not perfect, when it comes to changing parts, check and then check again.

Since you are using the crankcase vent for fuel pump, do you have another vent for crankcase now???
The crankcase still needs to be vented with a check valve. If not, it will start building too much pressure and pop a seal or gasket.
also I have the original vent still working and I have a filter on it.
 
#11
It shouldn't have coil bind with stock cam, rockers and 22# springs, but these heads are so different, there could be a burr in the spring pocket, you jus never know, it's best to check.

With the valve completely open, cam at max lift, chk and see if any coils in the spring is touching each other use a feelers gauge to measure. Check both.

Usally coil bind bends push rods, or cracks rockers.

You should be able to pin point the noise by taking 1 push rod out and rotating flywheel.

Keep digging, you will find it.
and yeah I don't see any coil bind.
 
#12
Yea, nothing stands out to me. Maybe others can see something, I don't.

Good job on the governor and extra vent.

Retainter to rocker clearance, while rolling the flywheel cw, with out plug, watch how close the rocker is to retainer when the valve is opening and closeing. The rocker should not be touching anything except pushrod, pivot nut, and valve stem tip at all times.

You have done nothing that thousands of people have already done, so it's got me stumped.

And you are making sure you are setting valve lash OFF the compression release???
 
#13
ugh I'm so annoyed I just wrote a whole reply and accidently deleted it. but what I said was yesterday it was running like crap and backfire and hard time starting so I took the crank cooler off to discover the camshaft was like 15 teeth off which would explain the issues I was having. I fixed that but he noise was still there. maybe it's internal. I can't think of much else. I'll take it apart tommorow and post an update. thanks so much for your help your the best!!!
 
#14
Yea, nothing stands out to me. Maybe others can see something, I don't.

Good job on the governor and extra vent.

Retainter to rocker clearance, while rolling the flywheel cw, with out plug, watch how close the rocker is to retainer when the valve is opening and closeing. The rocker should not be touching anything except pushrod, pivot nut, and valve stem tip at all times.

You have done nothing that thousands of people have already done, so it's got me stumped.

And you are making sure you are setting valve lash OFF the compression release???
and yes I set it of the compression release
 

sparkwizard

Well-Known Member
#16
Is that connecting rod knocking? Hard to tell. Can you move the rod on the crank? You do not have a spark plug in the head in that video, do you? Have you looked to see if anything might be touching your flywheel?
Do you still have all the original parts?
Maybe put it back together and go get another one?
 
#19
update: I have taken the crankcase cover off and rotated the crank and it made a sound and had resistance around the top of the piston stroke. I removed the camshaft and it still made the sound. then I have removed the head and all the valve train and it doesn't seem to have any wear on the cylinder walls. and it also doesn't make that noise and feels nice and smooth. so there could possibly be a problem with the head in some way.
 

Attachments

#20
Is that connecting rod knocking? Hard to tell. Can you move the rod on the crank? You do not have a spark plug in the head in that video, do you? Have you looked to see if anything might be touching your flywheel?
Do you still have all the original parts?
Maybe put it back together and go get another one?
I have already exchanged two due to not running right. I think they might be a little suspicious if I get another. the crank is clearing but one of you ideas may be the culprit...
https://youtube.com/shorts/SR-wfdmz8XY?feature=share
 
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