Upgrading MM E -1000 electric bikes to Lithium ion batteries.

I74

Active Member
#21
Added,,
The 5 pairs of genuine ''AMASS'' XT-90 anti spark connectors, I got from Amazon.
Think they were around 14 bucks w/ ship.
Hobby King looks like they sell the same ones.
You want to make sure they say ''AMASS'' on them though, & make sure the supplier is actually in the US, ''not'' China,, otherwise, you will probably wait over a month for them...
I also use ''Deans'' 10 - 13 gauge high strand count ''Ultra wire'', for my harnesses ect.
Thicker the wire, = ''less resistance''.;)
 

I74

Active Member
#22
Added again,,
The normal watt rating of a motor, is usually figured for continuous.
Peak watts are generally figured on short timed ''load'' bursts, just like on R/C motors.
 

I74

Active Member
#23
Late to the party again. Keep us posted. I was given one of those electric scooters and like you look at those 3 SLA batteries as boat anchors.
Still not sure whether to go Li ion or Lipo. I'm quite familiar with Lipos as I fly electric airplanes, but the Li ion's look kinda neat. If I go that route I'd build my own packs, already have a spot welder I built.

I would go with the 18650 - Li ion cells,of at least 2500ma. They generally are not near as volatile, & easier to manage,, just want to make sure they are stored charged.
Watched a couple of vids of guys using 18650 cells to make up 36+ volt packs with using a spot welder,, quite an elaborate process !!
I couldn't even see trying to do it with out a spot welder, with all those cell tabs.o_O
 

I74

Active Member
#24
Did some more research on the motor & ESC - ''controller'' this morning.

I found out that they say on electric scooter forums, that the motor is 121 rpm's per volt.
If you figure average running volts on the packs being 38, then you would multiply 121 times 38, which equals 4,598 rpm's.

One of the spec charts on another forum site, shows max efficiency of 78% @ 3300 rpm.
Guess that would be where the motor would like to run, & give it a top speed of around 20mph, with the stock gear ratio of 7.5 - 1

If you could get the rpm's of the motor up to the 4,598, the top speed would be around 25.5 mph, but would be pulling ''a lot'' of amps under load, & probably get it pretty hot, pretty quick !

I found out that the ESC is ''supposedly'' regulated to 32 amps max, & probably would never allow enough current to go thru it, to get the motor up much past the 3300rpm.
Here is a pic of an advertised ''China'' spec sheet that I found.
My motor is the 36 volt one.
Really seems that the specs are all over the place, from site to site research ….
spec.png
 
#26
I see these battery's use the "Ah" to indicate battery strength "?" My 24v tricycle Walmart ride uses a Lithium battery that is 274 "Wh" . How do these terms relate to each other. I know the old lead battery style for this scooter was 12 Ah x 2. Reason I ask is someday I will need a replacement and I like the prices I am seeing here.
 

I74

Active Member
#27
Hi boggie. :)

The ''Wh'' means watt hours.
The ''Ah'' means amp hours.
These terms mean how much capacity the battery will drain in 1 hr. at a specified draw.
 
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I74

Active Member
#28
Added,,
Your 274 ''Wh'' batt. , is supposed to be able to deliver 274 watts of power for 1 hr.

On ''Ah'',
Say if a battery is rated @ 1 amp ''per say'',, and the motor is continuously drawing 1 amp,, it will supposedly completely drain the battery in 1 hr.
 

I74

Active Member
#30
Thanks 174, is there a conversion between the two?
Yes there is.
I just tried to copy a conversion chart to bring up here, from a Google search,, but was unsuccessful.

I would just do a watt hr/ amp hr conversion search, they will pop right up.;)

Ian
 

I74

Active Member
#31
Each of my packs are actually 10.4 Ah.
Because I am running the 2 in parallel, the Ah doubles to 20.8 Ah.
I should be able to ride 1hr. with a constant pull of 20.8 amps.
Also,,
Each of the packs is rated @ 500 watts, & with the 2 packs in parallel,, that also doubles to 1000 watts.
Should be able to deliver 1000 watts of power for 1 hr.
 

I74

Active Member
#32
Added,,
The low voltage cut offs in the packs ''BMS'' & ESC, would more than likely trigger before that 1 hr. time though, with that kind of draw.
Don't think there would be anywhere here that I could run constantly for an hr. at full throttle anyway. LOL :D
 
#33
Added,,
The low voltage cut offs in the packs ''BMS'' & ESC, would more than likely trigger before that 1 hr. time though, with that kind of draw.
Don't think there would be anywhere here that I could run constantly for an hr. at full throttle anyway. LOL :D
Added,,
The low voltage cut offs in the packs ''BMS'' & ESC, would more than likely trigger before that 1 hr. time though, with that kind of draw.
Don't think there would be anywhere here that I could run constantly for an hr. at full throttle anyway. LOL :D
WOW, That's 3 1/2 times more than my battery and my scooter is supposed to go around 8 miles per charge
 

I74

Active Member
#34
Yea, I figured the wife would be able to ride it 25+ miles between charges.
I won't let the packs run down that low though.
She's probably just going to ''putt-putt'' it anyway. LOL
 

I74

Active Member
#35
The bikes out for delivery, should see it within the next couple of hrs ! :)

I ordered a ''really slick'', GT power 130a - 60volt watt meter/analyzer yesterday, that connects in between the batteries & ESC controller.
It was only 12 bucks on E -bay, & should be here in a week or two ...

The load side connects to the ESC/ controller connector, & the source side connects to the batt. connector.

It displays watts, amps,, & voltages, & is pretty much plug n play.;)
130a watt meter.jpg
 
#36
I scored my MM-1000E last year at Home Depot for $149, they had some crazy deal on them for $199 and mine had a broken power button so they dropped the price to $149. I picked up a 48v 1800W brushless BOMA motor, says it's good for 4500 RPM and I have a 48V 25AH lithium pack that barely fits in the battery compartment, I had to cut the back out so I can slide it in. I haven't finished it yet, I guess I should get back to it. I think you'll have yours done before me so post some progress pics or a video of it when you're done.
 

I74

Active Member
#37
Wow,, what a deal !
That ought to scoot pretty good !!

What do you have planned for a controller ?
Looks like ''Electric scooter parts'' sells 48v ones.
They have a 48v 1800w reversible ''brushless'' controller, that will handle up to 72 volts,, for 99 bucks !
You would definitely be able to get most /''or all'' of the goody out of the motor with that !!

Please feel free to post your progress ''anytime'' here if you like .;)

If you don't have one, I would definitely pick up a Watt meter/ analyzer,, like I' am getting.

Ian
 

I74

Active Member
#38
Well,, I got the bike.
It's a bit dinged up, & the left side panel is bent, ect. ect., but MM is going to take care of me on a few things ....
I topped off the stock batts., checked it over,, adjusted the caliper, & took it for a spin, as it was sunny & low 40's here this afternoon.
It actually rode pretty well, & has no electrical issues,, & the motor is smooth.

The motor mounting bracket structure is something left to be desired though .....
I could pinch the chain together behind the motor sprocket, & watch the bracket structure flex rearward.:eek:
I ended up drilling 2 holes rear of the ID tag into the bracket structure, with going thru 2 existing holes in the frame plate below it.
I then found a stout chrome plated steel L bracket, long gated the 2 holes ,, & bolted that to the rear plate hole & up to the motor mount bolt.
Also bolted the front hole I drilled & used fender washers underneath.
It's ''alot'' more solid now, & hardly any flex.
Also,,
I was real close on my weight guess of the batts & case. LOL.

Here are some pics... 100_5330.JPG


100_5332.JPG
100_5329.JPG
 
#39
Wow,, what a deal !
That ought to scoot pretty good !!

What do you have planned for a controller ?
Looks like ''Electric scooter parts'' sells 48v ones.
They have a 48v 1800w reversible ''brushless'' controller, that will handle up to 72 volts,, for 99 bucks !
You would definitely be able to get most /''or all'' of the goody out of the motor with that !!

Please feel free to post your progress ''anytime'' here if you like .;)

If you don't have one, I would definitely pick up a Watt meter/ analyzer,, like I' am getting.

Ian
Thanks, I have the controller already, it was a bundle with the motor. My side panel was dinged up a bit too but for the price, I wasn't going to complain. I didn't notice that about the motor mount structure, I will most definitely add some supports now after seeing yours. I have a couple variants of the BOMA motor, I have a 48V 1500W one that says it's rated for 5300 RPM but I am a little suspicious of that. I also have a 60V 2000W one without the bracket but I figured any 60V battery that would provide enough power over an hour would be to big to fit in the tray. My initial idea was to keep it all stock looking. A guy I work with had one and I was surprised at how fast it went for as long as it did. He weighs about 180 and it would get up to about 20 on initial takeoff but slow down to about 15 after that. He would get about 6-8 miles out of a charge too if I remember correctly. OMB Warehouse has Doodlebug sprocket adapters that will fit this wheel that will allow you to put a smaller sprocket on for more speed, the motor seems to have enough torque to do this without bogging down. Those watt meters are great, I've been into R/C for a long time and use that same meter, great bang for buck item. Keep up the great work but most of all have fun and be safe!.
 

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