Looking for Engine Builder Info

Mini Bike & Go-Kart Parts

#1
I am hoping to find any information (the internal build specs) I can on two engines I've recently bought. In a perfect world, I would just be able to call the original builders and get the spec sheets. However, it appears that both places are no longer in business, but, maybe they were sold and the records were transferred to the new ownership? The guy I bought these from seemed the type who just bought his equipment and didn't know very much of the technical info...couldn't even tell me the class he used to race in. (very suspicious, I know, but they both seemed ok, and if they aren't, the price I paid is still cheap for parts for my I/C) I haven't opened them up yet, but I do know the were methanol engines.

For now, the plan is to reduce the compression (to add at least one recoil) and switch over to pump gas and run them together on a fun kart.

Incase anyone can help, these are the serial numbers added by the builders:

Moon - BM-F2
SBR - SBR-07-1816
View attachment IMG_20210912_164956.jpg View attachment IMG_20210912_164809.jpg
 
#2
why/what specs you need to know,,
just eyeball stroke
measure compression
methanol is 110... so burns faster....less timing...more compression means hard to start.
(no replacement for displacement)
..and methanol(high octane/slow burn flame front/more pressure on piston already)
is for torque eventually there is equilibrium in power output
with gas and methanol according to this chart
m_ethanol
unless you can retard timing for higher rpm..like 2 strokes, or turbos

fun fact...
ethanol is water
putting ethanol in gasoline is like when a drug dealer cuts his drugs
...better yet fire it up get real time verbatim vibration specs
I'm ranting..lol
 

Attachments

#3
why/what specs you need to know,,
just eyeball stroke
measure compression
methanol is 110... so burns faster....less timing...more compression means hard to start.
(no replacement for displacement)
..and methanol(high octane/slow burn flame front/more pressure on piston already)
is for torque eventually there is equilibrium in power output
with gas and methanol according to this chart
m_ethanol
unless you can retard timing for higher rpm..like 2 strokes, or turbos

fun fact...
ethanol is water
putting ethanol in gasoline is like when a drug dealer cuts his drugs
...better yet fire it up get real time verbatim vibration specs
I'm ranting..lol
 

Attachments

#4
I am hoping to find any information (the internal build specs) I can on two engines I've recently bought. In a perfect world, I would just be able to call the original builders and get the spec sheets. However, it appears that both places are no longer in business, but, maybe they were sold and the records were transferred to the new ownership? The guy I bought these from seemed the type who just bought his equipment and didn't know very much of the technical info...couldn't even tell me the class he used to race in. (very suspicious, I know, but they both seemed ok, and if they aren't, the price I paid is still cheap for parts for my I/C) I haven't opened them up yet, but I do know the were methanol engines.

For now, the plan is to reduce the compression (to add at least one recoil) and switch over to pump gas and run them together on a fun kart.

Incase anyone can help, these are the serial numbers added by the builders:

Moon - BM-F2
SBR - SBR-07-1816
View attachment 282222 View attachment 282223
@matthehammer , that was rambling for sure...

OP, SBR was a well known track in Indiana to my knowledge. They last had a Twitter page but it hasn't been active sonce 2014 @SBRperformance. My guess is they are closed at this point. I would bet that some more pictures of the carb and a quick measure of the camshaft would indicate what class that engine was built for. If you want to pull start it, you woiuld most likely need to change the cam as it probably has the compression release omitted. The recoils were also removed due to drag and high rpms destrying them...
 
#5
why/what specs you need to know,,
just eyeball stroke
measure compression
methanol is 110... so burns faster....less timing...more compression means hard to start.
(no replacement for displacement)
..and methanol(high octane/slow burn flame front/more pressure on piston already)
is for torque eventually there is equilibrium in power output
with gas and methanol according to this chart
m_ethanol
unless you can retard timing for higher rpm..like 2 strokes, or turbos

fun fact...
ethanol is water
putting ethanol in gasoline is like when a drug dealer cuts his drugs
...better yet fire it up get real time verbatim vibration specs
I'm ranting..lol
ethanol is ethanol and water is water: ethanol attracts water, which can be prevented.
 
#6
@matthehammer , that was rambling for sure...

OP, SBR was a well known track in Indiana to my knowledge. They last had a Twitter page but it hasn't been active sonce 2014 @SBRperformance. My guess is they are closed at this point. I would bet that some more pictures of the carb and a quick measure of the camshaft would indicate what class that engine was built for. If you want to pull start it, you would most likely need to change the cam as it probably has the compression release omitted. The recoils were also removed due to drag and high rpms destroying them...
Yeah, both Moon and SBR seemed to disappear around 2013/14. I was hoping I could get a build sheet to eliminate any measurement errors during a full autopsy. Since I want to pair the two engines I need to know how similar they are and calipers and gauges can only get you so far. The goal is to make the cart a one person operation, I have the starter for these engines so I might be able to mount that to a jack shaft/clutch set up... lol those manual 3D clutches would have been ideal, but that's another company out of business.
 
#7
why/what specs you need to know,,
just eyeball stroke
measure compression
methanol is 110... so burns faster....less timing...more compression means hard to start.
(no replacement for displacement)
..and methanol(high octane/slow burn flame front/more pressure on piston already)
is for torque eventually there is equilibrium in power output
with gas and methanol according to this chart
m_ethanol
unless you can retard timing for higher rpm..like 2 strokes, or turbos

fun fact...
ethanol is water
putting ethanol in gasoline is like when a drug dealer cuts his drugs
...better yet fire it up get real time verbatim vibration specs
I'm ranting..lol
Sorry, that might have come across as rude. Not my intention. My plan is to pair these engines together so I want to know how they were prepped. I can measure most of the components but there are some things that are more difficult to get accurately. And thing like machining/ lobe hardening, duration, etc. I'm pretty sure both engines are similar, but being from different shops, probably not as close as I would like.
 
#8
Sorry, that might have come across as rude. Not my intention. My plan is to pair these engines together so I want to know how they were prepped. I can measure most of the components but there are some things that are more difficult to get accurately. And thing like machining/ lobe hardening, duration, etc. I'm pretty sure both engines are similar, but being from different shops, probably not as close as I would like.
I really doubt they are stroker cranks. So were looking at rod length, piston pin height and bore. Then camshaft profile and valve specs. Depending what class they were built for they could be close, but still far enough apart to not be paired.
 
#9
I really doubt they are stroker cranks. So were looking at rod length, piston pin height and bore. Then camshaft profile and valve specs. Depending what class they were built for they could be close, but still far enough apart to not be paired.
Exactly, things like if the block has been decked, I know one engine had the head machined. Lift is easy enough to measure, but not over lap and duration. Since these are built motors, the cams could have been done in house. Little things like that. Parts aren't cheap to buy/ship to Canada (or else I would just replace everything in question).

Just though someone here might know anything of the companies or have contact information where this information might still exist. As far as I could tell, both of these builders had decent reputations in their time. Oh well, keep eye out in the winter when I get into these things.
 
#10
Exactly, things like if the block has been decked, I know one engine had the head machined. Lift is easy enough to measure, but not over lap and duration. Since these are built motors, the cams could have been done in house. Little things like that. Parts aren't cheap to buy/ship to Canada (or else I would just replace everything in question).

Just though someone here might know anything of the companies or have contact information where this information might still exist. As far as I could tell, both of these builders had decent reputations in their time. Oh well, keep eye out in the winter when I get into these things.
Probably Bobs4cycle would be the place. Sadly most of this stuff was lost when they changed the forum over. I haven;t been on there in over two years so I'm not sure what the traffic is like or if it is even still active.
 
#12
Probably Bobs4cycle would be the place. Sadly most of this stuff was lost when they changed the forum over. I haven;t been on there in over two years so I'm not sure what the traffic is like or if it is even still active.
I did set up an account over there last night and there were plenty of useful responses. Turns out Moon is still around, their website doesn't work and I must have missed dialed the phone number... I'll have to try again this afternoon. Probably time to kill this thread, Thank you and take care.
 

toomanytoys

Well-Known Member
#13
A forced induction car running on ethanol is an amazing a thing. My WRX is setup flex fuel and tuned for 85. 93 tune is 290hp e85 tune is 370hp.

Completely different car on the e. Great stuff. Highly recommend for a turbo car. NA it isn't gonna make a difference.
 

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