Changing to a 60T rear on a CT200U-EX, will I need a new chain?

[schmogborg]

Noob here. Just got a CT200U-EX and LOVING it! I’m just after a wee bit more low end for hill climbing. It seems a 60T is reasonable first purchase, and perhaps a torque converter down the road. I’m wanting to keep it fairly tame for my kids and friends to ride. But our property is super steep and has tight trails.

Do I need to order a new chain? Or lengthen my current chain? I don’t have any chain tools, so what would I need specifically? Trying to order everything I’d need so I can hammer it out quickly.

 

[BrownStainRacing]

Noob here. Just got a CT200U-EX and LOVING it! I’m just after a wee bit more low end for hill climbing. It seems a 60T is reasonable first purchase, and perhaps a torque converter down the road. I’m wanting to keep it fairly tame for my kids and friends to ride. But our property is super steep and has tight trails.

Do I need to order a new chain? Or lengthen my current chain? I don’t have any chain tools, so what would I need specifically? Trying to order everything I’d need so I can hammer it out quickly.

You will need a longer chain.
I have steep hills also and old logging trails. A clutch will not like those hills. It's not gonna last long, gets too hot, too quick.
The t/c matched with that 60t and a 9t up front will put you at a 6.66:1 gear ratio, this is a very good combo for a hill climber with a 19" tall tire.
I recommend ordering 2 white driver springs for the driver (t/c clutch). The stock springs (plain) that come with the t/c kit will engage the belt at 2200rpm, 1 plain and 1 white will engage at 2600 rpm, 2 white springs will engage at 3100. The 2 white springs will put you at the top of the hills with the quickness, , and dont put so much strain on the lil motor.

The driver springs are super ez to change, and very controllable for even the novice rider. If you throttle it normal, they act normal. If you go from idle to WOT at a dead stop, you better be on a loose surface and hold on. I don't recommend WOT launches on hard surfaces, that includes red clay dirt.
My grandson actually learned better throttle control with the 3100 springs. The 2200 springs was jerky and wanted to move too soon. The 3100 springs allowed him to slowly throttle up before moving.

 

[schmogborg]

You will need a longer chain.
I have steep hills also and old logging trails. A clutch will not like those hills. It's not gonna last long, gets too hot, too quick.
The t/c matched with that 60t and a 9t up front will put you at a 6.66:1 gear ratio, this is a very good combo for a hill climber with a 19" tall tire.
I recommend ordering 2 white driver springs for the driver (t/c clutch). The stock springs (plain) that come with the t/c kit will engage the belt at 2200rpm, 1 plain and 1 white will engage at 2600 rpm, 2 white springs will engage at 3100. The 2 white springs will put you at the top of the hills with the quickness, , and dont put so much strain on the lil motor.

The driver springs are super ez to change, and very controllable for even the novice rider. If you throttle it normal, they act normal. If you go from idle to WOT at a dead stop, you better be on a loose surface and hold on. I don't recommend WOT launches on hard surfaces, that includes red clay dirt.
My grandson actually learned better throttle control with the 3100 springs. The 2200 springs was jerky and wanted to move too soon. The 3100 springs allowed him to slowly throttle up before moving.

That’s for the amazingly thorough response. Especially about the springs. I’m new to T/c’s, so that’s super helpful. Any particular T/c you’d recommend? Any that come with a 9t?

Do the CT200U-EX’s need the riser plate for the t/c?
And for a chain, how might I calculate the length that I’d need?

 

[BrownStainRacing]

I use cheapest 30 series t/c on ebay at the time. None come with a 9t.
Colemans do need risers.
A 10ft roll of chain usually come with 2 master links, gotta cut to fit. You will need to loosen chain adjuster to move tire as far forward as you can, then put the chain on, mark it, take off what you need, add chain and master link, adjust chain to snug, usually 1/2" play up and down is plenty. Ride it for an hr or so, so chain will strech and adjust again.
You might not need a 9t, how much you weight will determine that. I weigh 200#, so I set mine up to pull 200#. A 150# rider don't need a 9t/60t, maybe a 9t/50t will be enough, it all depends on the weight.
Before you order anything, post it here, somebody will let you know if it will work or not.

 

[BrownStainRacing]

@schmogborg
Theres a lil bit of difference in those stall (engagement) springs.

Can you tell which 1 is set up with a clutch (2400 rpm springs), and a jackshaft?????

The other 2 have t/c's, 1 has 3000 rpm springs, the other has 3600 rpm springs.

 

[Bigjake]

If it still has the stock 196 it's probably still got the 16mm crank does anybody make the adapter yet I know that high dollar kit from that power place that is the only difference between a rainforest one and the one they sell

 

[BrownStainRacing]

If it still has the stock 196 it's probably still got the 16mm crank does anybody make the adapter yet I know that high dollar kit from that power place that is the only difference between a rainforest one and the one they sell

Yeap, that's right. That 16mm crank is the odd ball.
@Bigjake , good catch!!!

 

[schmogborg]

If it still has the stock 196 it's probably still got the 16mm crank does anybody make the adapter yet I know that high dollar kit from that power place that is the only difference between a rainforest one and the one they sell

Hum. I had seen some thing mention needing a 3/4 adapter, but you are saying it’s a uniquely different, non existent adapter?
Seems a lot of CVT’s on Amazon are $70ish, where as the power sport sites are closer to $200.

edit: my engine is original, I think the bike is an ‘18/19.

 

[BrownStainRacing]

Hum. I had seen some thing mention needing a 3/4 adapter, but you are saying it’s a uniquely different, non existent adapter?
Seems a lot of CVT’s on Amazon are $70ish, where as the power sport sites are closer to $200.

edit: my engine is original, I think the bike is an ‘18/19.

Pull the clutch off. Measure the inside diameter of the clutch, then measure the outside of the crankshaft.
The only coleman I did a t/c swap on, the owner had already swapped the stock 196 for a pred 212, so it used the cheaper 3/4" crankshaft t/c kit.

 

[schmogborg]

Pull the clutch off. Measure the inside diameter of the clutch, then measure the outside of the crankshaft.
The only coleman I did a t/c swap on, the owner had already swapped the stock 196 for a pred 212, so it used the cheaper 3/4" crankshaft t/c kit.

It is indeed a 5/8”. But I see a lot of mentions for a 3/4” adapter.

Roasted the clutch today, so going to order parts from Amazon.
Regarding sprockets and T/c springs. I’m 230, but want it to be controllable on trails for my 10 and 13yo as well. So the 9T/60T is likely too much? Stick with the 9T and new springs you mentioned?

could you link to the springs?

 

[BrownStainRacing]

At 230#, you definitely need 9t/60t. That lil stock 196, lacks torque, you need to help it as much as you can. Them kids will get use to that gear, actually it'll keep em slowed down, and those higher springs will help with throttle control. There's always that throttle stop screw adjustment, screw it in for them, screw it back out for you. Until they figure out what you did, then they take it all the way out, like my grandson does, lol. Little knuckle head.
Those kits usally come with the wrong size bolts. You will need
4) 5/16"-24 3/4" long for side cover
1) 5/16"-24 2 1-2" for the driver to crankshaft, I think thats long enough.
Some 3/4" i.d. shims to properly line up driver pulley to driven pulley to keep belt as straight as possible, so it will have a long and happy life. If it's crooked, it dies pretty fast.
Heres those springs. Look up part #, you might find em cheaper.
https://www.gokartsupply.com/asymapp.htm

 

[schmogborg]

At 230#, you definitely need 9t/60t. That lil stock 196, lacks torque, you need to help it as much as you can. Them kids will get use to that gear, actually it'll keep em slowed down, and those higher springs will help with throttle control. There's always that throttle stop screw adjustment, screw it in for them, screw it back out for you. Until they figure out what you did, then they take it all the way out, like my grandson does, lol. Little knuckle head.
Those kits usally come with the wrong size bolts. You will need
4) 5/16"-24 3/4" long for side cover
1) 5/16"-24 2 1-2" for the driver to crankshaft, I think thats long enough.
Some 3/4" i.d. shims to properly line up driver pulley to driven pulley to keep belt as straight as possible, so it will have a long and happy life. If it's crooked, it dies pretty fast.
Heres those springs. Look up part #, you might find em cheaper.
https://www.gokartsupply.com/asymapp.htm

Ordered! Thanks so much for all the help. Really excited!

Final question. What’s the best option for a replacement header? My main concern is reducing the thigh burn zone, especially with the engine being elevated and moved forward a bit.
I’d really like to keep it as quiet as it is now, so as to be a good neighbor . I’m not particularly after performance gains. But I know I might need to changes things to be in line with the new header/muffler. I might not do this right now, but was curious if you’d done that since you mentioned your grandkids using them.

 

[BrownStainRacing]

Ordered! Thanks so much for all the help. Really excited!

Final question. What’s the best option for a replacement header? My main concern is reducing the thigh burn zone, especially with the engine being elevated and moved forward a bit.
I’d really like to keep it as quiet as it is now, so as to be a good neighbor . I’m not particularly after performance gains. But I know I might need to changes things to be in line with the new header/muffler. I might not do this right now, but was curious if you’d done that since you mentioned your grandkids using them.

You are welcome.
I'm not sure about the colemans. There some coleman people here, hopefully they will pop in and help out. But, look and see if the muffler has a cap on the exit, some do some dont, that can be drilled out and turned away, then put some self tapping screws back in. Imo, no header is gonna be quite, like the factory muffler. That factory muffler is good til you start getting up in the 5200-5500 rpm range. That stock 196 should be set to only run 4200 max with governor working, it's probably turned down less then that as it sits now.

 

[BrownStainRacing]

@schmogborg
Before I forget.. ..AGAIN, check that crankshaft on the 196, some won't accept a t/c. Like this 1. If it has threads on the end, with a castle nut, it won't accept 1. This is a 3/4" crankshaft.
I have a 55mm crankshaft, ARC 3.328 billet rod, and ARC billet flywheel for this 1, I may change it, one of these days.

 

[Bigjake]

On the muffler all you gotta do is cut a v in the heat shield where it hits the frame and yes it brings it right up to where it melts the fat on your leg ask me how I know haha
What I was gonna do is wrap the heat shield with header wrap atleist the outside to help it out never did I traded for a kart

 

[bropep13]

i also own a ct200U ex it has the external gov removed and a straight pipe with a vm22 carb. what I'm now learning is the engine will fail sooner than expected on it. unfornutaly I don't think I can reinstall any of the stock parts because I don't have them what would be my best course of action. i was gonna add a cast aluminum flywheel and rod eventually is that enough??