New electric minibikes

Phil1958

Phil1958

#21
#21
Havasu Dave said:
@Phil1958 Do you include the Panasonic batteries in that comment about Chinese batteries? I see Panasonic lithium batteries are now (2018) MFGRd in Dalian. I read that dendrite growth and subsequent shorting/fires are endemic to Lithium batteries in general. Thanks for your comment on the subject. Nice to see SME commentary like that.
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IMO lithiums are not my first choice for high power applications such as traction motors. like any other electronic component
lithium polymer cells are affected by heat mainly. heat is caused by charging and discharging the cell. the heat causes tiny
lithium particles to move around and line up into little spikes called dendrites the spikes eventually push through the plastic
sheet (polymer) between the positive and negative electrodes. when that happens a short circuits occurs. in old tech cell
overheating and fires resulted. newer cells use special plastics and new shapes to make the shorts "self heal" meaning the
dendrite vaporizes and end up on one side of the polymer. large dendrites can still cause fires! charge your lithiums at 1C
and they will last much longer.

paralleling lithiums if done improperly is also fraught with problems.

:scooter:
 
Phil1958

Phil1958

#22
#22
dave - sorry to not answer your question. i have no direct experience with any facilities in dalian. rejects from some factories are prime parts for exporters. the rejects might fail at one or more QC tests (if any) but still hold a charge and the exporter knows you dont a chance to get refunded.

if anyone would like a contact within china that i have used for 6+ years and never had any issues pm me.
 
I74

I74

Well-Known Member
#23
#23
I would ''never'' dream of using large ''Lithium polymer''-''Lipo'' cells in high power applications, especially in parallel !!
''Lipos'' i use ,, are just the ''way'' smaller 2 - 4s packs,, in my R/C applications.

The 18650 cells are ''lithium ion''-''Li-ion'',, ''not'' lithium polymer.

Lithium ion cells are ''way'' less volatile than ''Lipo'' ones, & generally pretty safe.
They are pretty much ''just'' larger cells than the ''Energizer'' lithium ion ones, that you can buy in any store that sells batteries.
 
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I74

I74

Well-Known Member
#24
#24
Added,,
My 2 - 36v. 10s 4p packs that I run in parallel on the wife's bike,, have had 2 seasons on them so far, & around a couple of dz. runs & charges ect.
Each pack has 40 - 18650 ''Li-ion'' cells, plus ''BMS'' circuitry in each pack,, & are both ''still'' exactly matched,, & doing just fine.;)
 
Phil1958

Phil1958

#25
#25
I74 said:
I would ''never'' dream of using large ''Lithium polymer''-''Lipo'' cells in high power applications, especially in parallel !!
''Lipos'' i use ,, are just the ''way'' smaller 2 - 4s packs,, in my R/C applications.

The 18650 cells are ''lithium ion''-''Li-ion'',, ''not'' lithium polymer.

Lithium ion cells are ''way'' less volatile than ''Lipo'' ones, & generally pretty safe.
They are pretty much ''just'' larger cells than the ''Energizer'' lithium ion ones, that you can buy in any store that sells batteries.
Click to expand...

i would check your references, Lithium Ion cells use a liquid electrolyte which is inherently less stable
than the semi-solid phase dielectrics used in the new polymer cells. as long as they operated within specs
they both work quite well.

in any case it is refreshing to see experimenting here, good job!

cool!

p.s. always use the highest voltage motor!
 
I74

I74

Well-Known Member
#27
#27
Phil1958 said:
i would check your references, Lithium Ion cells use a liquid electrolyte which is inherently less stable
than the semi-solid phase dielectrics used in the new polymer cells. as long as they operated within specs
they both work quite well.

in any case it is refreshing to see experimenting here, good job!

cool!

p.s. always use the highest voltage motor!
Click to expand...
Just read up on the latest of comparisons.
Looks like what they are saying now is that you are generally correct Sir.

I was referencing ''Lipo'' batteries in the ''foil wrap'' for R/C applications.
Those I have seen over discharged, ''puff',, & actually catch fire,, from Guys using them on R/C, & not monitoring run time on them ect..:rolleyes:
Am told that a ''Lipo'' can burn under water also.
Have never seen an 18650 cell go volatile yet,, or a ''Li-ion'' power tool pack ect.
Have used Energizer & Sony ''Li-ion'' E2 lithium, & watch batt. Li-ion cells for many years also, & never seen one leak yet either or have problems.
 
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I74

I74

Well-Known Member
#30
#30
Added,,
My buddy Fred, that I built the 48v, & 212 Tillotson Mini chopper for,, uses 18650 ''Hi quality'& expensive'' cells in his Vape pipes.
He is one of the first ones in Iowa, to experiment with these cells in Vape pipes,, & has not had any problems.
He say's that the ''cell ''in the Vape pipe, is definitely ''warmer'' than the feel of the ''Chinese'' packs ''with BMS'' in his 48v bike.
 
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Li'l Popeye

Li'l Popeye

Well-Known Member
#31
#31
For anyone considering electric to safe money... With the gas prices in America: keep using gas. Gas price here in Netherlands is €1,60/ltr, which equals $7,19/gallon. Reason I had an electric scooter; it was fun, it was something different and I was curious about the techniques used.

The scooter I recently sold was Chinese made, 67,2V 1500W and it had a 16S 8P 18650 battery (20Ah) in it.
With the stock batterycharger (2A) it took very long before it was charged. In theory something like this: 20Ah : 2A=10 hrs.
BMS allowed for maximum charging with 5A, which reduced charging time to approx 4 hrs with the 67,2V 5A "fastcharger".
With each charge I could make 40km (25miles) and the charger used 1,5Kwh for a full charge, with each Kwh costs (in Netherlands) €0,22 (~$0,26). 1,5Kwh x €0,22 = €0,33 for each full charge or €0,33/40Km (~$0,39/25miles).
That means: €0,00825/km or $0,0156/mile battery charging costs.
These Chinese 16S 8P batteries are being sold for around €500,- (~$594,-) and I think a good Chinese one should need replacement before 500 full charging cycles. That equals 20000km (12427miles). That makes €0,025/km ($0,0297/mile) battery replacement costs.

Total costs for each km or mile:
€0,033/km
$0,063/mile
With the Dutch gas price (mentioned somewhere above) a gas powered moped would have to make 48km/ltr to equal the same costs. That is 113mpg. And that's possible with a 50cc moped, which has 1,5Kw power output.
With the US gas prices you can almost run a moped with a V8 to equal the same costs/mile;-)

I do use the 18650 cells in my minibikes to power the tach/speedometer. 4 of them in series in a container like this:.

When they reach their low voltage (3V) I will take them out and charge them using my Nitecore D4 charger, but untill now they still haven't reached their low valtage.
 
I74

I74

Well-Known Member
#32
#32
Good read LI'l Popeye, thanks for sharing. :)

My stage 1 GX-200 Mini, I' am getting around 30 miles on a qt. of canned Tru-Fuel 92 octane.
Reason the mileage is so good, is because the way it's set up,, & that it basically cruises around @ a fast idle,,, due to the displacement & power of the engine.
I'll always have at least 1 fuel Mini.;)

Have always been into electric stuff, & have been alongside the progression of rechargeables since the mid 70's,, due to being an avid R/C Guy for ''many'' years,, & that my Pop's was an electronical engineer, plus my profession ect.
 
I74

I74

Well-Known Member
#36
#36
amyjnelson12 said:
The Xiaomi Mi M365 has reigned supreme as the best electric scooter in the world since it hit the market in 2016. Winning a Red Dot award a year later, the M365 has historical importance, as it is the workhorse scooter selected by sharing companies to sprinkle throughout metropolitan cities around the world. do you want this scooter.
https://rideonelectric.com/xiaomi-electric-scooter/
Click to expand...
Are you affiliated with this company ??
 
creia

creia

#37
#37
amyjnelson12 said:
The Xiaomi Mi M365 has reigned supreme as the best electric scooter in the world since it hit the market in 2016. Winning a Red Dot award a year later, the M365 has historical importance, as it is the workhorse scooter selected by sharing companies to sprinkle throughout metropolitan cities around the world. do you want this scooter.
https://rideonelectric.com/xiaomi-electric-scooter/
Click to expand...
I bet they are with the manufacturer or a distributor hawking their product and looking for some free advertising...
Michael
 
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