Climbaway clutch engine RPM

[CLH]

What was the max RPM Tote Gote's with the Climbaway clutch ran from the factory? I have two Tote Gote Nova's. One is a 670 I put a 7hp Tecumseh engine on, the other is a unmolested, well-preserved, 675 with the stock 6hp Briggs aluminum engine. Both run the same 1" shaft Climbaway clutch made by Bonham. I consider the all-stock 675 the control for my experiment of putting a 7hp Tecumseh on a Nova.

What is the Max engine RPM I should be running? I put my spark plug run tachometer/hour meter on it. When governed down to the engine manufacturer suggested 3500 RPM max, the clutch seems like it doesn't want to open all the way in order to give me good performance by gripping the belt fully. However, when I run them at a little higher RPM, what my tach says is the 4-5 thousand RPM range, it seems like the performance is more accurate and the clutch operates to its max capability. But this is over the engine manufacturers suggested RPM for engine longevity. This 'problem' applies to both the Gote which I just put the 7 hp Tecumseh on and the 6hp Briggs one no one has ever really touched other than a carb cleaning..that 675 still has the original tires and belt on it. The 670 with the 7hp had the clutch powder coated to protect it, and I lubed the ball-pockets of the clutch with the Bonham suggested Lubriplate grease before installing it. Neither of the clutches have been modified in any way, however the balls bearing of the 7hp Gote have been replaced with same size replacements, but I don't see how that would affect it, they are just off-the-shelf bearings, and the fact it performs the same as the bone stock 675 tells me I'm on the money..maybe?

Does anyone have any experience as to what the max RPM should be in order to achieve the performance I should expect from these Tote Gote Nova's? Did Bonham set the max governed RPM higher in order for their clutches to work? Or is it set higher to get over obstacles when riding and I should just accept a good safe "cruising speed" for normal riding? Should I just accept the fact these Gotes need a little higher than recommended RPM to run full speed/full performance? I understand these bikes weren't meant to be quick from the factory, but running it at 3,500 RPM seems way too slow for the clutch to even fully operate...like they were MEANT to run faster than 3,500 RPM. Please enlighten me on what you think...Thanks Everyone

 

[creia]

Is your "spark plug run tachometer/hourmeter" one of those cheapo China-made ones off of Ebay? If so, I would not trust it at all as far as being accurate. Years ago we had one of those and I did not realize how bad it was until we finally bought the real deal "Tiny Tach". I'm just saying that when your tach says "4-5 thousand RPM range" you might ACTUALLY be at 3,600 RPM. Does the engine SOUND like it is revving to 4-5 grand?
Michael

 

[CLH]

Creia,
Yes it is totally cheapo, the $12 Chinese "kedsum" brand one off Amazon. It had decent reviews but I think most of those were coming from people using them only as hour meters. Should've considered that before posting but I honestly didn't think it'd be off by a few thousand RPM. Your post and also rereading the reviews make me reconsider that.

Yesterday I had it on the wrong spark/revolution setting which was making the RPMs look higher than they were. Reading the instruction pamphlet rectified that. I could believe it if it's still off by a lot.

I've got a tiny tach mounted on the reel mower I use on my bermudagrass out back. I agree they are more accurate, I was thinking it was just bc of the new Honda on it but the other one is so cheap it's likely way off. I'll pickup a tiny tach and report back.

 

[creia]

Just for a quick (and inexpensive) check, why not just switch out the Tiny Tach you already have on that reel mower to your Tote Gote and compare RPMS to the el cheapo tach?
Michael

 

[Havasu Dave]

I cant answer your question as posed. No Tach. I can say that my 670 ran fine, but the 10:1 reduction gear killed higher speed, but I never was able to see it operate while riding of course.

My Gote 500 uses a Climb Away as well, but to a driven instead of a drive shaft. I am powering it with a Raptor I running a hotter cam, and definitely winding it out. Looking down at my feet where the clutch is, it appears to be fully extended in the sheaves.

So I don't know what anything was designed for, only that I am reaching full operation at about 3500 RPM, (I don't use a tach) and that it goes faster when I wind the engine out to a max. of about 6000 RPM. Note my RPM comments are just educated guesses.

I lube with dry lube as you did. I disassemble and clean. Use the same springs.



Here's a video of the mini gote. The riding portion starts at 3:40 and might give you an idea of what I am getting from a Raptor and a Climb Away sans drive shaft. Might just need more throttle. :wink: Maybe that's the reason Bonham didn't use governors with them.

[video=youtube;DcFrWzOXYHI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcFrWzOXYHI&feature=youtu.be[/video]

 

[rollin2]

Check the belt width also.if the belts were ever replace,might be to narrow.

 

[Divouneh]

I love the video [emoji684]


Sent from my iPad using OldMiniBikes

 

[Davis]

They do run better in the 4000-4500rpm range and it won't hurt winding them up that far.

 

[CLH]

They do run better in the 4000-4500rpm range and it won't hurt winding them up that far.

Thanks for the help to everyone. I haven't stolen the tiny-tach off the reel mower to check the RPM, but I adjusted the RPM down to the speed where the clutch is fully open but the engine isn't totally winding out. Should be good to go I feel. Just need a throttle cable now/ get the brakes working.

It actually occurred to me that the way my stocker Gote with the 6hp Briggs and updraft carb has it setup to where the throttle speed isn't totally controlled by the governor. The governor air vane is still there, and has linkages hooked up to the little butterfly arm that is on the back of the carb, but the way the throttle pulls on the linkages means it isn't doing a whole lot, if anything (except at very high RPMS). Plus there is a screw rod that helps dial-in the idle speed by adjust the amount of downwards pull the spring has on the butterfly arm. This probably also allowed hunters who used these gotes to put through the woods while looking for game and such. If any of that makes sense. I need to post some pictures of the stock Briggs throttle linkage setup (on the engine) for these Gotes.

Also I was reading about GMC crackerbox semi's from the 60's, they were designed to have "reserve power" for getting over hills and dead-stops with heavy loads and such. I like to think it was a common idea of the era to have "reserve power" and a "cruising speed" for many vehicles. Whereas today technology and transmissions have improved to a degree to where it isn't emphasized as much...but this is way off topic anywho..

Thank you everyone for the help

 

[Havasu Dave]

It actually occurred to me that the way my stocker Gote with the 6hp Briggs and updraft carb has it setup to where the throttle speed isn't totally controlled by the governor. The governor air vane is still there, and has linkages hooked up to the little butterfly arm that is on the back of the carb, but the way the throttle pulls on the linkages means it isn't doing a whole lot, if anything (except at very high RPMS).

So far, every Tote Gote I've had did not use a governor at all. I don't know as much as [MENTION=7282]Richard Trotter[/MENTION] does about them, but he would know if your model utilized the governor. Good guess that is where you are losing your top end.

 

[Davis]

Some of them did my model 781 has a linkage like the one he mentioned and it doesn’t govern very much at all but the older ones like my early 600 used a air vane set up and it knocks it down a little harder but seems that they did do their own linkage on some to get more rpm outta them.

 

[Richard Trotter]

This is the only Climbaway Specification sheet I can find. It shows performance peaks around 4500 rpm.

 

[steven Durham]

Such great machines and still in demand today.

 

[Richard Trotter]

It's interesting that the engine speed is controlled by the tension of the driven spring. The complete system is acting as a governor. I think the worst thing you can do to a Climbaway clutch is run it outside the complete system (or without a belt). The clutch springs and the driven spring work together and protect the clutch springs from being over stretched. Remember, there are no substitutes or replacements for the Climbaway springs.
The driven spring on a Nova Tote Gote is inside the shaft, buried deep in the worm gear assembly.

 

[Richard Trotter]

The Driven Spring on the Nova fits inside the drive shaft

 

[CLH]

It's interesting that the engine speed is controlled by the tension of the driven spring. The complete system is acting as a governor. I think the worst thing you can do to a Climbaway clutch is run it outside the complete system (or without a belt). The clutch springs and the driven spring work together and protect the clutch springs from being over stretched. Remember, there are no substitutes or replacements for the Climbaway springs.
The driven spring on a Nova Tote Gote is inside the shaft, buried deep in the worm gear assembly.

Hi there Richard,

Thank you very much for posting the data and rendering of the Bonham Climbaway Clutch and the photo of the worm gear mechanism in the driveshaft assembly. Not much is talked about the driven half of the Bonham Nova 670/675 bikes, but it is a very interesting system Bonham designed back in the 60's. That bronze gear is very high quality alloy. During the restoration of my Gote I opened up the worm gear assembly just to look at it (looked like new), and also lubed the plunger spring with a good lithium grease like Bonham calls for so it slides easily. Also put new roll pin in the pulley half/plunger/ Its a pretty complicated system really to describe to someone I think, and especially for the era it was designed in. Lots of aviation and FWD influence on this bike. And a very interesting piece of off-roading history.

 

[Richard Trotter]

The Nova drive is truly one of a kind. Another good thing, all the bearings are easy to find if you want to rebuild the drive.

 

[CLH]

So far, every Tote Gote I've had did not use a governor at all. I don't know as much as [MENTION=7282]Richard Trotter[/MENTION] does about them, but he would know if your model utilized the governor. Good guess that is where you are losing your top end.

No loss of top end as the engine starts first pull and runs like a screaming banshee thereafter. Love this old cast iron HH70 I have on it. Feel likes a small slice of AMERICA sitting in my garage. My original question was: What is the stock optimum max engagement speed for the original climbaway clutch? Which Richard Trotter answered with the diagram he posted showing 4500 rpm being the performance peak claimed by Bonham. I have it setup now to where there is still a governor hooked up, but the max RPM is adjust all the way out to 4,500 RPM by adding a longer max governor speed screw. If my wording makes sense.

Thanks to all for the great replies.

Also, I keep seeing Nova parts show up on eBay, but I'm only buying the ones I need because I want to see more people complete their Gotes like I have.

 

[Havasu Dave]

Also, I keep seeing Nova parts show up on eBay, but I'm only buying the ones I need because I want to see more people complete their Gotes like I have.

When I restored mine, if I didn't get parts from Richard, I didn't get them. Just nothing out there. Just today I started rebuilding some Orlandi shocks (used on various Gotes) I got off of Ebay. New seals, paint and chrome. Stepped up for those, but they don't come up for sale often.

I restored this one a few years ago. Briggs 6HP, fresh. Quite honestly, my Mini Gote with a cam'd Raptor and straight Climb-Away is faster, pulls harder, and climbs just as well. This is where the Orlandi shocks will go.



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