Lil Indian Chrome Frame

[buddy44]

Seven years ago I picked up a Llil Indian roller at a swap meet. Being chrome I wasn't sure if it came that way or if someone chromed it. I should mention that since I'm a Taco guy I really don't know much about Lil Indians.

Recently I saw some discussion about serial numbers on this site and someone mentioned that the chrome ones have the only numbers that mattered. That made me try to find more info but I couldn't find anything other than some photos of 2 or 3 chrome Ruttmans and only one other chrome Lil Indian. So far it looks like it might be fairly rare bike. I checked my axle plate and was surprised to see it doesn't have numbers like any I've seen. It looks like 5(9), which if I were to guess might mean the 5th chrome one made in 1969. That's only a guess, so if anybody knows the real story about them, I'd appreciate it.



I've started to clean up the frame and it's looking a lot better. If I decide to keep it I'm thinking to just fix it's problems and build it as a sort of an old patinaed survivor. I know it's supposed to have 4" wheels but since I have the wheels that came with it, I could use them for now.

 

[AJaxMini]

It's not a '69 with the brake mount style and Briggs motor plate. Maybe it was 5 of 9 made but I have no clue whatsoever. I've seen some talk about them but there hasn't been enough talk for me to remember anything. Nice find though and I'll be looking forward to any info that comes out of it.

 

[Sunnyknoll]

Hi Buddy:

This may seem ironical, but I actually have a chromed Lil Indian fork spring for that bike. I bought 2 of those years ago from Allied for mine. Why 2, I don't know, but I had them both chromed and have one on my Lil Indian. $20 would get it to your door if your interested. Believe me, at that price, there's no profit for me, but what the heck, I'd rather see it go to a nice bike. I don't have any pictures of the spring, but believe me, it's beautiful and flawless.

Henry

 

[buddy44]

Thanks for the info.

To anybody who might care here's the only other chrome one I could find. It seems to verify that they indeed made some chrome ones and it's partly why I had guessed mine might be a '69. It is on the Jalopy Journal mini bike thread. here's what the current owner had to say:

"I'm down from 12 of these little machines to just this Lil Inidan. According to Ray Michrina at Allied Leisure Corp he doesn't recall how many were sold with the plated frame but the numbers were very few. It's a 1968 or 69 model and as you can see has been well used. I bought it from the family who purchased it new."

Vintage minibikes | Page 60 | The H.A.M.B.



Henry, I'll get back to you.

 

[AJaxMini]

Thanks for the info.

To anybody who might care here's the only other chrome one I could find. It seems to verify that they indeed made some chrome ones and it's partly why I had guessed mine might be a '69. It is on the Jalopy Journal mini bike thread. here's what the current owner had to say:

"I'm down from 12 of these little machines to just this Lil Inidan. According to Ray Michrina at Allied Leisure Corp he doesn't recall how many were sold with the plated frame but the numbers were very few. It's a 1968 or 69 model and as you can see has been well used. I bought it from the family who purchased it new."

Vintage minibikes | Page 60 | The H.A.M.B.

View attachment 81985 View attachment 81986 View attachment 81987

Henry, I'll get back to you.

Buddy, The one on the H.A.M.B. would be newer than the one you have. Take notice to the brake mount. Yours has a notch set between the holes which uses the earlier brake caliper. The other doesn't have the notch and uses different caliper mount spacing. It would be at the tail end of Briggs & Stratton usage so it could be a '68 or very early '69.

 

[buddy44]

I knew mine had the notch, but hadn't notice his didn't. When did they stop doing the notch? I guess that means the caliper for mine would be harder to find and therefore even more costly. I'll probably go with a band brake on the clutch to keep the budget down. After all this will be a rider, not a show bike.

I was playing around the other day and mocked it up. It looks like new 5"tires having a larger diameter may not clear the gas tank if I use this engine, plus they are starting to just look wrong to me. Haven't made up my mind yet. I'm not quite sold on the idea of white 4" steel wheels and know where I can probably get some 4" Azuza tri-stars. would that be sacrilegious?

 

[manchester1]

There are some very nice white lil indian wheels in the classified. Seller is "Peekster"

 

[buddy44]

There are some very nice white lil indian wheels in the classified. Seller is "Peekster"

Thanks for letting me know.
I saw them earlier today and they were already sold! It's ok. I have a lot of different projects so I'm really in no hurry plus haven't made up my mind yet. The right parts eventually come along and that always helps guide the project.

 

[AJaxMini]

I knew mine had the notch, but hadn't notice his didn't. When did they stop doing the notch? I guess that means the caliper for mine would be harder to find and therefore even more costly. I'll probably go with a band brake on the clutch to keep the budget down. After all this will be a rider, not a show bike.

I was playing around the other day and mocked it up. It looks like new 5"tires having a larger diameter may not clear the gas tank if I use this engine, plus they are starting to just look wrong to me. Haven't made up my mind yet. I'm not quite sold on the idea of white 4" steel wheels and know where I can probably get some 4" Azuza tri-stars. would that be sacrilegious?
View attachment 82032

I'm not exactly positive about the brake but it must have been around '66 or '67. It doesn't matter which brake caliper you'd need, they are both getting pricey. If you are going to ride it then you'd probably be better going with the band brake on the clutch anyway. The calipers don't really stop these bikes well. As for the engine, there were frames with the motor plate moved forward specifically for the 5hp Briggs engines. You could always make an aluminum adapter plate to allow for the motor. IF you went with a smaller horse Briggs, it should drop right in.

You should build it however you like, if you don't cut, weld, or anything else to the frame it could always be changed later to be more original. It's looking pretty nice by the way. The chrome cleaned up pretty decent.

 

[buddy44]

I'm not exactly positive about the brake but it must have been around '66 or '67. It doesn't matter which brake caliper you'd need, they are both getting pricey. If you are going to ride it then you'd probably be better going with the band brake on the clutch anyway. The calipers don't really stop these bikes well. As for the engine, there were frames with the motor plate moved forward specifically for the 5hp Briggs engines. You could always make an aluminum adapter plate to allow for the motor. IF you went with a smaller horse Briggs, it should drop right in.

You should build it however you like, if you don't cut, weld, or anything else to the frame it could always be changed later to be more original. It's looking pretty nice by the way. The chrome cleaned up pretty decent.

Thanks again Ajax. I'm a purist in most things so I'd never do anything that couldn't be undone. It too bad someone once welded on some bolts for some additional funky foot pegs and two little weld spots on the top tubes for absolutely nothing!

 

[AJaxMini]

Your welcome buddy.

As for the welds, just mask around them and grind it down till it's smooth again. It'd surely look better than any remnants of the welds. Keep at it and get the original parts for it as they come up.

 

[NorthEastMetal]

Good to see another chrome frame Lil Indian. Mine is the one mentioned on the H.A.M.B. Motor has a 1968 date code. I bought this Lil Indian from the nephew of the original owner. His uncle purchased it new. I'll have to look closer on my axle plate for another set of numbers like yours shows. Ray Michrina told me very few were turned out in chrome. Maybe only 9 as your number shows?

Steve

 

[buddy44]

Good to see another chrome frame Lil Indian. Mine is the one mentioned on the H.A.M.B. Motor has a 1968 date code. I bought this Lil Indian from the nephew of the original owner. His uncle purchased it new. I'll have to look closer on my axle plate for another set of numbers like yours shows. Ray Michrina told me very few were turned out in chrome. Maybe only 9 as your number shows?

Steve

Steve, It's a lil world! When I bought it I already had a too many frames to build so I never really had any intentions to keep it. I only bought it because I got a good deal and figured I could sell the frame and use or sell the wheels, but every now and then I'd look at it and think I might regret that. Recently I was taking stock of my stuff trying to decide what to keep and what to sell. Seeing yours on the H.A.M.B really made think twice about it. Yours being an original survivor with a known history is very cool. Your front wheel looks new. Was it missing? It's hard to tell but is it a new one from Allied Leisure? It will be interesting to hear what kind of numbers are stamped on yours.

Thanks for responding to the thread.
Chris

 

[NorthEastMetal]

Chris,
The wheels on my chrome frame Lil Indian are original but were rather rusty so I stripped and re-painted them. Frame number is 24598. Motor smokes once warmed up so a rebuild is due, otherwise I plan to keep it original. I did however consider a full restoration incl re-chroming the frame...but have decided to keep the wear and scars of many years of use.
Steve

 

[cheezy1]

I hate to burst the "rare" bubble....but after talking to NorthEastMetal a few years ago about his...I inquired about the chrome one. According to Ray and many of the Lil Indian Gurus...the chrome bikes were some of the employees. They were chromed by employees for personal use or whatever you would like to call it. From the man himself...none were made for sale to the general public(that he could remember that is). So basically they are just like taking one today and going and getting it chromed. But the cool factor is....who owned it originally and how did it get to your hands. It is a cool bike for any collection..but the back story would make it priceless to some.

 

[minibikin']

I hate to burst the "rare" bubble....but after talking to NorthEastMetal a few years ago about his...I inquired about the chrome one. According to Ray and many of the Lil Indian Gurus...the chrome bikes were some of the employees. They were chromed by employees for personal use or whatever you would like to call it. From the man himself...none were made for sale to the general public(that he could remember that is). So basically they are just like taking one today and going and getting it chromed. But the cool factor is....who owned it originally and how did it get to your hands. It is a cool bike for any collection..but the back story would make it priceless to some.

This is exactly as I was told as well....


Sent from my Texas Instruments Speak and Spell...[emoji2]

 

[NorthEastMetal]

I too spoke with Ray about my chrome frame. A few were made. Never heard the story about employees only, but cheezy1 and the Lil Indian gurus knows their stuff. Mine was chrome when given to the cousin of the guy I bought it from. He was there when the father rolled it out back in the 60s. Did the father buy a bare metal frame and have it chromed? Seems somewhat extreme. Did an employee sell one? Probably will never know for sure. How many have turned up with a chromed frame besides Chris' and mine?

 

[cheezy1]

I too spoke with Ray about my chrome frame. A few were made. Never heard the story about employees only, but cheezy1 and the Lil Indian gurus knows their stuff. Mine was chrome when given to the cousin of the guy I bought it from. He was there when the father rolled it out back in the 60s. Did the father buy a bare metal frame and have it chromed? Seems somewhat extreme. Did an employee sell one? Probably will never know for sure. How many have turned up with a chromed frame besides Chris' and mine?

Like I mentioned...to a collector or just a fan (like me)...the back story would be awesome to hear on both the chrome bikes. The history and the travel and how they made it to each of their homes...would be fascinating to know. You being into classic cars and restorations..I am sure you can relate. The sad part is most that were involved are probably long gone or simply don't remember. But no matter what the story is...a chrome one from back then is a prize to have.

 

[buddy44]

cheezy1,
When I first read the statement, "I hate to burst the "rare" bubble", I thought you were going to say that actually there were quite a few made. While they may not be a limited or a rare production model, the provenance of a few being chromed by employees is to me, even cooler.

In my bike's case there is a lot unknown. The only history I can tell you is that I bought it a little over seven years ago at the Long Beach (CA), motorcycle swap meet. The seller thought it was a Taco. I told him it was a Lil Indian. I got lucky on a few accounts. 1. It was the same day as the big Pomona car swap meet so Mac and a few others who would have normally snatched it early in the day were not in attendance. 2. The guy who was looking at it before me decided not to buy it. 3. I got it for a great price.

The poor little thing had been used and abused. If only it could talk. It would be interesting to know how it made it's way to the west coast.

 

[AJaxMini]

Did the father buy a bare metal frame and have it chromed? Seems somewhat extreme.

Considering the time frame and the area where these were manufactured I don't think it's a stretch at all. Customizing was huge back then and chroming wasn't nearly as expensive as it is now. So to think that somebody might have bought one and had it chromed seems pretty legitimate. Maybe they were hot rodders and did this sort of stuff. It's one of those things that we may never know unless you were able to ask more of the people when purchasing about it. Otherwise the history is usually lost.