She's a ripper...

Endo

New Member
#1
IMG_1202.JPG IMG_1203.JPG IMG_1206.JPG

Hi everybody, it's my first post and can't wait to get started. Here are pics of the Scout I was given yesterday. Quite frankly, I couldn't believe how fast it is. Too fast for my 6 yr old (right now), but that gives me time to go over it. It's only a H25 but it got my 200lbs. going 35mph, maybe a bit more. Should it be that fast? The PO would always brag to me that it would get him up to 40mph. He's passed on now so I can't ask him if he altered the engine (retired engineer from GM). Anyway, my concerns revolve around the brakes (practically none with me on it, but will lock with no load), replacing the throttle and cable with something that has strong "snapback" action, buying fenders, and maybe installing a kill switch. Hopefully this message gets into the system, I'm not the best at doing it. Thanks in advance.
 

Attachments

#3
Congratulations on getting a mini bike. No, it is not going 35. If you had a 12tooth clutch, a 60 tooth rear sprocket, and six inch wheels for a tire diameter of 12" you would have to run that engine at 5000 RPM, which is 1500 more RPM than it is governed for, or designed for, and the first time you twisted it that hard, you'd see the rod poking out of the new hole it just made. :thumbsup:

But I bet you're hitting pretty close to 22 MPH! It takes quite a bit of engine to get 35, much less 45.
 

red baron

Active Member
#4
welcome endo. sounds like you have a strong runner. check out the OldMiniBikes warehouse clutch brake, it might be a good option.
 

Endo

New Member
#7
Well that holley carb and monroe shocks should help :laugh:
My neighbor (John) had a thing about stickers on most everything. I've got a two Hurst shifter stickers and a big Moroso one on my John Deere 180. In a strange twist of fate, he has a Jegs sticker on his casket. He was a great guy and the one who got me interested in rebuilding machines.
 

Endo

New Member
#8
:detective: mmm photos in the first post... interesting... Welcome to OldMiniBikes, that's a nice mini you got there!
I signed up for a snowblower forum this winter, so I have some experience with... Hell, my wife does all the click and paste and import and all the other stuff to get pics on. Lol.
 
#11
For the young one I would probably gear it way down with a jackshaft then you can limit the throttle without burning up the clutch. And if you get sick of fighting with that drum brake a clutch band brake is a good fix
 

Endo

New Member
#12
Yes, on both accounts. Here's the thing, I don't know what a jackshaft or a clutch band break is. I have the mechanical ability to do the work as long as someone holds my hand the first time. Slowing it down is VERY important. It has no governor (not one that engaged while riding anyway) and spun well past 3,600 rpms. Do the jackshaft and the governor work "together"? Where's the best place to buy these items? How will I know if I'm buying the correct parts. I'm not even sure of the year and model, just that it's a Scout with an H25. One thing I forgot, as it ramps up I get a wobble. It goes away as speed increases towards max. Check out the fork picture, one seems to be about 1/4 to 3/8 lower than the other. Any connection? Thank you jeep.
 
#13
Welcome to OldMiniBikes. You can get new shoes for that Bonanza brake system, needs to be taken apart and cleaned anyway may as well replace what you can and adjust the rest. That is an iconic minibike, I'm no Bonanza expert but those look like Arco forks still it's a great bike and that is an original clutch cover on it. Cool little bike.
 

Endo

New Member
#15
Welcome to OldMiniBikes. You can get new shoes for that Bonanza brake system, needs to be taken apart and cleaned anyway may as well replace what you can and adjust the rest. That is an iconic minibike, I'm no Bonanza expert but those look like Arco forks still it's a great bike and that is an original clutch cover on it. Cool little bike.
Where's the best place to buy the shoes? Again, how will I know I'm getting the correct ones? I have no identifying serial numbers for the frame or wheels.
 

Hent

New Member
#16
I like those bikes. Very simple.

Best way to know if you're getting the right parts is by measuring. Many items were changed by others or through out the life of the bike. Yours looks pretty standard, so not many worries, but in general, measurements.

Pictures:

https://www.oldminibikes.com/forum/photopost/showgallery.php?cat=565

https://www.oldminibikes.com/forum/photopost/showgallery.php?cat=4598



As others mentioned, the clutch brake is a good setup - Clutch Brakes & Bonanza Replacement Parts


Where's the best place to buy the shoes? Again, how will I know I'm getting the correct ones? I have no identifying serial numbers for the frame or wheels.
 

Endo

New Member
#17
Dave, your numbers are close. 12T front sprocket and a 9" diameter rear sprocket with 72T. Both rims are 7" in diameter. Tires measure 12". As for the governor, I don't think it's in the case. I'm not sure. Can the governor arm still swing with the throttle arm? That's how it's set up. I can get a pic of it for you. It's crappy out today, but I will get a top speed for you soon.
 

Endo

New Member
#18
Is a clutch brake more effective than drum. Can you tell me how it's set up. The reason I ask is that if I can buy good shoes for it and have the same results, I'll stay stock. I just don't know much about these wonderful, miniaturized death machines. An important problem (other than no brakes) is that I can't remove either of the oil drain plugs. I've never come across one, let alone two that wouldn't budge. Can I use propane heat to loosen one up?
 
#19
Dave, your numbers are close. 12T front sprocket and a 9" diameter rear sprocket with 72T. Both rims are 7" in diameter. Tires measure 12". As for the governor, I don't think it's in the case. I'm not sure. Can the governor arm still swing with the throttle arm? That's how it's set up. I can get a pic of it for you. It's crappy out today, but I will get a top speed for you soon.
Endo, there are on line calculators for computing your "maximum speed." It uses the sprocket teeth, the total diameter of your rear tire, then finally, it uses your maximum RPM. Easy to Google it.

Normally, these Tecumseh engines are governed via the throttle arm against spring resistance, and the spring is hooked to another arm that operates off of centrifugal force from some spinning weights inside the engine. That governed RPM is generally around 3500 maximum. If you go much over that, you have a real good chance at breaking your connecting rod on this engine. Other engines commonly used on mini bikes, both old, and new, have other things that break if RPM is exceeded, and some of those engines have after market parts available to prevent that from happening as easily. There is a Tecumseh manual as a sticky on this forum under the "Tecumseh" section, and among other things, the governor system is described.

I don't need to know your top speed. We've just been doing this for awhile, and know what we're looking at. No offense intended. I happen to be a fan of Tecumseh engines, and along with a few others, we have the operating parameters figured out.

That clutch brake system has a lot of fans. It is easy to install and works quite well to stop a bike. However the guy who actually makes mini bike clutches- or I should say, the guy who makes Max Torque clutches, is totally against using them as a brake. The reason for this, is that heat is the enemy of those clutches, specifically the "oil lite" (Oil impregnated) bronze bushing that serves as the bearing. A brake not only heats that up, but applies a torsional load on them, further wearing the bushing. Most people here will tell you not to worry about it. If I were sitting there with a vintage drum brake, I would definitely fix that. Probably take it apart, and clean it well, source some shoes if required, or maybe they just need a light sanding. The clutch brake is way better at stopping the bike than the drum will ever be. But I wanted to point out the Pros and Cons.

I would also use a jack shaft. That is what those holes are for. That will allow you more latitude in making sprocket changes, and fine tune the gear ratio for decent speed, with decent torque.

Obviously the bad thing about using heat on your drain plugs, is the oil boiling inside. In all the engines I have done, only once have I had a drain plug I could not remove. I welded a piece of steel to it, and hit the steel with a hammer. You only need to remove one of those drain plugs.

I apologize for the extremely long post here, but figured I'd make it up for my initial terse reaction to your speed claim. Your best friend is probably Google searching this site. All of the information you need is here, but you have to find it. Find some posts with Bonanza's like yours, and PM the author. A lot of people here are Bonanza fans, and like most of us, will go out of their way to help a new member who wants to learn, and help himself.

Best of luck, and welcome to OldMiniBikes Forums.
 

Endo

New Member
#20
Endo, there are on line calculators for computing your "maximum speed." It uses the sprocket teeth, the total diameter of your rear tire, then finally, it uses your maximum RPM. Easy to Google it.

Normally, these Tecumseh engines are governed via the throttle arm against spring resistance, and the spring is hooked to another arm that operates off of centrifugal force from some spinning weights inside the engine. That governed RPM is generally around 3500 maximum. If you go much over that, you have a real good chance at breaking your connecting rod on this engine. Other engines commonly used on mini bikes, both old, and new, have other things that break if RPM is exceeded, and some of those engines have after market parts available to prevent that from happening as easily. There is a Tecumseh manual as a sticky on this forum under the "Tecumseh" section, and among other things, the governor system is described.

I don't need to know your top speed. We've just been doing this for awhile, and know what we're looking at. No offense intended. I happen to be a fan of Tecumseh engines, and along with a few others, we have the operating parameters figured out.

That clutch brake system has a lot of fans. It is easy to install and works quite well to stop a bike. However the guy who actually makes mini bike clutches- or I should say, the guy who makes Max Torque clutches, is totally against using them as a brake. The reason for this, is that heat is the enemy of those clutches, specifically the "oil lite" (Oil impregnated) bronze bushing that serves as the bearing. A brake not only heats that up, but applies a torsional load on them, further wearing the bushing. Most people here will tell you not to worry about it. If I were sitting there with a vintage drum brake, I would definitely fix that. Probably take it apart, and clean it well, source some shoes if required, or maybe they just need a light sanding. The clutch brake is way better at stopping the bike than the drum will ever be. But I wanted to point out the Pros and Cons.

I would also use a jack shaft. That is what those holes are for. That will allow you more latitude in making sprocket changes, and fine tune the gear ratio for decent speed, with decent torque.

Obviously the bad thing about using heat on your drain plugs, is the oil boiling inside. In all the engines I have done, only once have I had a drain plug I could not remove. I welded a piece of steel to it, and hit the steel with a hammer. You only need to remove one of those drain plugs.

I apologize for the extremely long post here, but figured I'd make it up for my initial terse reaction to your speed claim. Your best friend is probably Google searching this site. All of the information you need is here, but you have to find it. Find some posts with Bonanza's like yours, and PM the author. A lot of people here are Bonanza fans, and like most of us, will go out of their way to help a new member who wants to learn, and help himself.

Best of luck, and welcome to OldMiniBikes Forums.
Thanks Dave. I removed the engine and, with the best bite I could get on the nut, got both to turn w/o heat. I want to stay OEM with the brakes. Any videos on how to do the swap around?
 
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