I was at work and my son tried to start his bike today. He has never successfully started it on his own. It usually starts 2nd - 3rd pull. He failed. I got home later and I could not get it started. I am guessing he flooded it. I pulled the plug. I tried starter fluid. Finally after 40 pulls. It started and idled, but the throttle and rev was choppy. I took it for a spin and it didn’t want to get up to speed and rev. He took it around the nieghborhood and it died on him in less than 5 minutes. I went and tried to get it going and nothing. I don’t think he messes with the adjustments at all. Now what?
Tough start H35
- Thread starter KMR
- Start date
How long has it been since you last started it prior to this time ? If more than a few months you will probably need to remove the float bowl and clean it/the carb a bit etc mostly due to todays gas quality. I put a new re-pop carb on one of my rupps a while back and it ran perfect then 6 months later it was all gummed up already.
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You may want to pull the carb and clean the jet and fuel bowl. What I found that really helps is to turn off the fuel shut off and run it out of gas and this helps not to get float and jet all gummed up. Also, gas goes bad relatively fast so its good to keep fresh gas in the tank and not sitting in the fuel bowl.
KMR,
I might go a little overboard in my approach, please feel free to select any or all of the following. It only takes a little bit of "dirt" to partially block the tiny openings in the carburetor.
Use a newly purchased No Spill brand gas can. Run Ethanol-free Rec 90 gas with an appropriate amount of Sea Foam added.
Replace the following with new:
Spark plug (its easy) , Ethanol resistant fuel line, suitable fuel filter for that engine. If you need it running, buy a re-pop carb and a rebuild kit. Double check the work of the carb builders and check the settings, inside and out. Install the re-pop, clean the air filter and get it running. Advise all riders of the fuel change, it will run a bit better. Re-build the original carburetor for future use, I use a big white plastic basin from a big box store. The parts tend to stay trapped in the basin. If the new re-pop is delayed in arrival, clean the engine and change the oil.
All this should get you running again, of course I've forgotten something.
I hope this helps,
SAT
I might go a little overboard in my approach, please feel free to select any or all of the following. It only takes a little bit of "dirt" to partially block the tiny openings in the carburetor.
Use a newly purchased No Spill brand gas can. Run Ethanol-free Rec 90 gas with an appropriate amount of Sea Foam added.
Replace the following with new:
Spark plug (its easy) , Ethanol resistant fuel line, suitable fuel filter for that engine. If you need it running, buy a re-pop carb and a rebuild kit. Double check the work of the carb builders and check the settings, inside and out. Install the re-pop, clean the air filter and get it running. Advise all riders of the fuel change, it will run a bit better. Re-build the original carburetor for future use, I use a big white plastic basin from a big box store. The parts tend to stay trapped in the basin. If the new re-pop is delayed in arrival, clean the engine and change the oil.
All this should get you running again, of course I've forgotten something.
I hope this helps,
SAT
Yes, these guys have got it. I posted this same occurrence about a month ago. Brand new Carb, second one actually) on a known good running H35. I let it sit for six months, had to completely rebuild it, as it was gummed up in both the low speed and high speed circuits, as well as the float metering needle sticking.
I was going to trade the bike to a guy, and wanted to make sure it ran when he came to get it, so I started it once every three or four days. One time, I waited ten days and the same thing happened. Turning the fuel off with a trace amount of fuel doesn't help.
As stated above, I went and got some alcohol free gasoline. I had the same problem going on with an H30. Added alky free gas to it too, after rebuilding that carburetor. Folks told me I was full of crap, recently, on this forum. No way. That alcohol fuel KILLS Tecumseh carburetors FAST.
You will need to correct both your main and idle jets and orifices, and while the bowl is off, make sure the float valve is working. Go alky free, even if you have to pay big bucks for it. Your Briggs and Mikuni wont care. Your Tec does.
I was going to trade the bike to a guy, and wanted to make sure it ran when he came to get it, so I started it once every three or four days. One time, I waited ten days and the same thing happened. Turning the fuel off with a trace amount of fuel doesn't help.
As stated above, I went and got some alcohol free gasoline. I had the same problem going on with an H30. Added alky free gas to it too, after rebuilding that carburetor. Folks told me I was full of crap, recently, on this forum. No way. That alcohol fuel KILLS Tecumseh carburetors FAST.
You will need to correct both your main and idle jets and orifices, and while the bowl is off, make sure the float valve is working. Go alky free, even if you have to pay big bucks for it. Your Briggs and Mikuni wont care. Your Tec does.
KMR,
Not to pile-on.
The best time to check the carburetor float gap is when it's off the engine, its got to be upside-down. Most are a fractional dimension, so you can use a clean and de-burred drill bit shank for a gauge. The exact dimension for your application escapes me now. But a bunch of this information is available on-line. I think I have a Tecumseh tool somewhere with the various dimensions machined into the tool shank for most float gaps.
I hope this helps,
Holler if you need more, its +7 Fahrenheit here and the extension cords don't want to uncoil,
SAT
Not to pile-on.
The best time to check the carburetor float gap is when it's off the engine, its got to be upside-down. Most are a fractional dimension, so you can use a clean and de-burred drill bit shank for a gauge. The exact dimension for your application escapes me now. But a bunch of this information is available on-line. I think I have a Tecumseh tool somewhere with the various dimensions machined into the tool shank for most float gaps.
I hope this helps,
Holler if you need more, its +7 Fahrenheit here and the extension cords don't want to uncoil,
SAT
I always run seafoam in my gas cans, I have a fuel filter, and this is a re-pop ebay carb. Two months old. I only got the bike in November. I will grab a new plug tomorrow, but this plug was bought new in November with a few hours on it. I dropped the bowl, it was clean. Float looked good and ran a wire through the small holes in the jet. I put it back together and want to put the plug in before I try it.
I told myself I wasn’t going to play with the engine too much. I put a new carb, plug, fuel line, filter and shut off when I got the bike in November. It was firing up 2-3 pulls. I dialed in the carb to idle. The engine never really revs up well. It gets up to speed, but doesn’t have a snappy throttle response. More and more I see a Predator in the near future. I wanted to get this engine running, but I don’t want to tinker with it every other time my son wants to ride. When I was a kid without internet and zero knowledge, I tinkered with my mini bike more than I rode it. I want something more reliable for my son. Thank you for your help. And any further advise is much appreciated.
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KMR,
There is a thread somewhere here where a Senior member with more background than I details how to set the High speed and Low speed needle mixtures. You have to clamp the bike with the rear tire off the ground, or remove the chain or TAV drive. Advance the throttle and adjust the high-speed a specific way. Then idle the engine and adjust the low-speed needle the same way. Open the needle, or un-screw, or counter-clockwise till it runs rough, close, or tighten, or clockwise till it runs rough, then back and forth till you find the smooth middle ground.
Then repeat for the low speed mixture screw. Its been a year or so and a bunch of other work since I have done this.
The initial cold start settings for each needle screw escapes me now.
As always, I hope this helps,
If not, save $99.99 and a coupon and read the threads on breaking-in a Predator in the parking lot of HF,
SAT
There is a thread somewhere here where a Senior member with more background than I details how to set the High speed and Low speed needle mixtures. You have to clamp the bike with the rear tire off the ground, or remove the chain or TAV drive. Advance the throttle and adjust the high-speed a specific way. Then idle the engine and adjust the low-speed needle the same way. Open the needle, or un-screw, or counter-clockwise till it runs rough, close, or tighten, or clockwise till it runs rough, then back and forth till you find the smooth middle ground.
Then repeat for the low speed mixture screw. Its been a year or so and a bunch of other work since I have done this.
The initial cold start settings for each needle screw escapes me now.
As always, I hope this helps,
If not, save $99.99 and a coupon and read the threads on breaking-in a Predator in the parking lot of HF,
SAT
Float adjustment is 11/64 drill bit. I always set for level on a stock engine, as you will never burn the fuel from the bowl like that, and it wont leak out of the top vent at level.
I adjust the high speed needle for acceleration against the clutch. In other words, I rev the throttle fast, holding the bike, against the centrifugal clutch. I turn it (lean usually} until I get a smooth acceleration. Once you do this, the high end will take care of itself. You will readily note it smoothing out under quick acceleration. No need to remove chain or elevate the bike. What happens when you do that, is you get an optimum WOT, but your acceleration is boggy, or stumbles. Moreover, you can't adjust WOT on anything without a load, because you are not working the engine. WOT with no load is too lean for WOT with a rider.
I never run these engines with no load against the governor.
To adjust the governor, you need to first ensure your spring is in good shape, and that no slop or friction exists in the throttle rod.
These are the steps I use to get Maximum governed RPM: Loosen up the 1/4" hex screw that holds the 2 pieces of the governor arm together.
Rotate the governor rod coming out of the block clockwise with some pliers or a small crescent wrench. DON'T force it.
Keeping the rod rotated, push the top of the governor arm to the right to cause the throttle to open to “wide open throttle. “
Holding all of that, re-tighten the ¼” hex screw.
Basically the governor rod coming out of the engine is all the way to the right when the throttle is all the way to the right.
Naturally this needs to be done with all links/springs in place and if you change anything you need to re-adjust as described.
I adjust the high speed needle for acceleration against the clutch. In other words, I rev the throttle fast, holding the bike, against the centrifugal clutch. I turn it (lean usually} until I get a smooth acceleration. Once you do this, the high end will take care of itself. You will readily note it smoothing out under quick acceleration. No need to remove chain or elevate the bike. What happens when you do that, is you get an optimum WOT, but your acceleration is boggy, or stumbles. Moreover, you can't adjust WOT on anything without a load, because you are not working the engine. WOT with no load is too lean for WOT with a rider.
I never run these engines with no load against the governor.
To adjust the governor, you need to first ensure your spring is in good shape, and that no slop or friction exists in the throttle rod.
These are the steps I use to get Maximum governed RPM: Loosen up the 1/4" hex screw that holds the 2 pieces of the governor arm together.
Rotate the governor rod coming out of the block clockwise with some pliers or a small crescent wrench. DON'T force it.
Keeping the rod rotated, push the top of the governor arm to the right to cause the throttle to open to “wide open throttle. “
Holding all of that, re-tighten the ¼” hex screw.
Basically the governor rod coming out of the engine is all the way to the right when the throttle is all the way to the right.
Naturally this needs to be done with all links/springs in place and if you change anything you need to re-adjust as described.
I am trying to follow your advice. I can tell you this. The engine / bike has very lilttle torque. I can pretty much hold the bike (feet on the ground) while giving it full throttle. It really does not have much take off power. Is that the governor? I can’t see a high speed idle adjustment changing this issue, but maybe I am missing something.
I always run seafoam in my gas cans, I have a fuel filter, and this is a re-pop ebay carb. Two months old. I only got the bike in November. I will grab a new plug tomorrow, but this plug was bought new in November with a few hours on it. I dropped the bowl, it was clean. Float looked good and ran a wire through the small holes in the jet. I put it back together and want to put the plug in before I try it.
I agree. It could be the governor not allowing you to get full throttle. Can you visually see if you are attaining wide open throttle by looking at the carburetor throttle actuator? Sometimes you have to reposition the spring, or make a new throttle rod, or both.
Sea Foam and the like are stabilizers and solvents, and contain alcohol. They are not a replacement for using non alcohol gas. I realize some people are sold on these products. I am not here to argue with them, but I will say that these products do not "remove" water or alcohol from fuel. When I say cleaned the carbs, I mean removing them and disassembling and scrubbing the white crap off with carb cleaner and a brush, and running the cleaner UP the carb from the bottom and back down via the pilot (idle) orifice.
By the way, on one bike, the first time this occurred, I just bought another carb. When it too failed, I started paying attention to the fuel, and what a difference that has made.
It's frustrating to me, being passionate about these engines, (I had my own issues on this forum a few years ago when I was starting out with mini bikes) I hate to see you suffer through trying to get it running right, but I also don't want to sound like a windbag on a forum. The issues you have are the number one reason folks give up and get a new OHV engine. I know it's frustrating, but you can prevail.
Sea Foam and the like are stabilizers and solvents, and contain alcohol. They are not a replacement for using non alcohol gas. I realize some people are sold on these products. I am not here to argue with them, but I will say that these products do not "remove" water or alcohol from fuel. When I say cleaned the carbs, I mean removing them and disassembling and scrubbing the white crap off with carb cleaner and a brush, and running the cleaner UP the carb from the bottom and back down via the pilot (idle) orifice.
By the way, on one bike, the first time this occurred, I just bought another carb. When it too failed, I started paying attention to the fuel, and what a difference that has made.
It's frustrating to me, being passionate about these engines, (I had my own issues on this forum a few years ago when I was starting out with mini bikes) I hate to see you suffer through trying to get it running right, but I also don't want to sound like a windbag on a forum. The issues you have are the number one reason folks give up and get a new OHV engine. I know it's frustrating, but you can prevail.
Dave, KMR,
I stand corrected on the no-load high speed adjustment.
It's one of the several reasons this forum is such a great place.
Certainly it is time for me to re-visit the whole Sea Foam fuel additive issue, and high speed carb adjusting methods.
Hang in there KMR, suddenly it will run markedly better.
Steve
I stand corrected on the no-load high speed adjustment.
It's one of the several reasons this forum is such a great place.
Certainly it is time for me to re-visit the whole Sea Foam fuel additive issue, and high speed carb adjusting methods.
Hang in there KMR, suddenly it will run markedly better.
Steve