Upgrading MM E -1000 electric bikes to Lithium ion batteries.

[I74]

I usually just buy the DID ''Japan made'' - quality #35 chain in 10 ft. sections & make my own.

Haven't counted ea. link,, just run it over in place , then mark & cut it where needed.

Have cut down a couple of stock chains,, but don't remember right off how many links removed.

Think the last 65t sprocket, I got from Amazon

Wouldn't recommend getting the combo with the cheap china chain.

 

[Bekkala85]

I usually just buy the DID ''Japan made'' - quality #35 chain in 10 ft. sections & make my own.

Haven't counted ea. link,, just run it over in place , then mark & cut it where needed.

Have cut down a couple of stock chains,, but don't remember right off how many links removed.

Think the last 65t sprocket, I got from Amazon

Wouldn't recommend getting the combo with the cheap china chain.

Ok will just opt for the eBay sprocket not the chain. Also I just noticed my chain tensioner doesn't spin very freely. Is it supposed to? And what is the adjustment but used for with the tensioner?

 

[I74]

Yes, the tensioner needs to spin free like a skateboard wheel.

I normally go around 2 inches of chain deflection on the elect. stuff, ''that's up & down'',, with checking the chain @ the top, right about in front of the center frame down tube.

The tensioner roller , you need to take it apart ,, with knocking the bearings out of it,, & make sure the bearings roll free.

Using a 5/16 bolt usually works good for those,, for going thru & catching the inner race of the opposite bearing to tap it out & vise versa.

They are the same as skateboard ones,, & you can pop a grease seal on ea. one with an X-acto,, & put a couple of drops of ''any'' syn. car oil in them.

The bearing oils for R/C stuff is even better.

You also want to make sure that the spacer between the bearings is long enough,, so the bearings are not ''pinched''.

Plus make sure that the outboard washers are not touching anything but the inner races.

Skateboard places sell shim washer kits that work great for this, & I also run high speed skateboard bearings instead of the stock ones.


I

 

[Bekkala85]

Yes, the tensioner needs to spin free like a skateboard wheel.

I normally go around 2 inches of chain deflection on the elect. stuff, ''that's up & down'',, with checking the chain @ the top, right about in front of the center frame down tube.

The tensioner roller , you need to take it apart ,, with knocking the bearings out of it,, & make sure the bearings roll free.

Using a 5/16 bolt usually works good for those,, for going thru & catching the inner race of the opposite bearing to tap it out & vise versa.

They are the same as skateboard ones,, & you can pop a grease seal on ea. one with an X-acto,, & put a couple of drops of ''any'' syn. car oil in them.

The bearing oils for R/C stuff is even better.

You also want to make sure that the spacer between the bearings is long enough,, so the bearings are not ''pinched''.

Plus make sure that the outboard washers are not touching anything but the inner races.

Skateboard places sell shim washer kits that work great for this, & I also run high speed skateboard bearings instead of the stock ones. Where do you order the high quality chain from?


I

Ok I will take the tensioner off and inspect it. I'm sure bearings need lube. The previous owner did alot of off road driving. It could be pinched closed too. I might opt for high speed bearings too.

 

[Bekkala85]

Ok I will take the tensioner off and inspect it. I'm sure bearings need lube. The previous owner did alot of off road driving. It could be pinched closed too. I might opt for high speed bearings too.

So I'm in the middle of my brushless install, few hiccups along the way. Had to figure out the right oreintation for reversing the motor. After rereading this thread I realized you posted how to to do that. Also good information on the 3 speed switch, I didn't know these controller were default in the middle. I went to remove my rear sprocket and the very last bolt wouldn't come out. I broke it loose but it just freespins inside the threads. I can't thread it back in or take it out.i was thinking about just grinding the head off the bolt and taking sprocket off. Do you think switching to the 65t will still have good hill climbing power? I also puchased an 11t motor sprocket and was gonna run 11/75 gearing? Any thoughts?

 

[I74]

First,,
What motor combo did you get?

If that little alan bolt just spins,, put a pr. of vise grips on the head, & pull while you turn,, & see if that gets it.
Those threads in the hub are pretty soft anyways.
You can use a tap & red loctite when replacing that bolt,, just don't tighten it to much.

Didn't know they made a double D bore 11t. #35 sprocket for that motor shaft.

You run a 11/75 set up,, am sure it would more than pull hills just fine, & the motor ect. will also not potentially work as hard.
Just make sure you are ''very'' slight on the throttle when initially taking off,, cause you might get a big surprise !
Won't get as much top speed though.

That ratio is just over 6.8-1.
Mine's 6.5-1.

@ 5k rpm's,, you should be able to hit around 31mph.

Fred's bike I made with the 48v set up,, think I geared @ 6.2 - 1, ''10-62'',, & that thing frigg'n fly's up hills without breaking a sweat.

Bike weighing only 75lbs. helps a bit also.

I

 

[Bekkala85]

First,,
What motor combo did you get?

If that little alan bolt just spins,, put a pr. of vise grips on the head, & pull while you turn,, & see if that gets it.
Those threads in the hub are pretty soft anyways.
You can use a tap & red loctite when replacing that bolt,, just don't tighten it to much.

Didn't know they made a double D bore 11t. #35 sprocket for that motor shaft.

You run a 11/75 set up,, am sure it would more than pull hills just fine, & the motor ect. will also not potentially work as hard.
Just make sure you are ''very'' slight on the throttle when initially taking off,, cause you might get a big surprise !
Won't get as much top speed though.

That ratio is just over 6.8-1.
Mine's 6.5-1.

@ 5k rpm's,, you should be able to hit around 31mph.

Fred's bike I made with the 48v set up,, think I geared @ 6.2 - 1, ''10-62'',, & that thing frigg'n fly's up hills without breaking a sweat.

Bike weighing only 75lbs. helps a bit also.

I

I ended up going with the 48v 2000w kit. I did my first test run today, and for some reason I can't get my brake caliper adjusted correctly now after removing the rear wheel and putting it back on. The brake disc is rubbing on the inside caliper. I just spent an hour trying to adjust it. I got it to mostly spin free except about 1/3 if the rotation of the disc. I noticed the wheel bearing on that side didn't look seat all the way in like it does on the sprocket side. But I couldn't get it tapped in any further. Maybe it's bottomed out but it definitely looks raised compared to the sprocket side. I thought maybe that's why my disc was rubbing?

 

[I74]

1020 or 1109 motor ??

Lets see a pic from the rear of the caliper in relationship with the disc ect..

I had to put a ''thin'' axel washer between the caliper bracket axel hole & the frame, on 2 that I built.
Another one,, I put a ''thin'' washer between the caliper bracket & frame tab bracket.

You want the caliper straight up & down ''before adjusting'',, not cocked,, & the rotor smack dab in the middle of the caliper slot opening, & not cocked there either,, before adjusting also.
These are not in anyway precise setups when made.

A little ''outside of the box'' tinkering, can get them pretty good though.

 

[Bekkala85]

1020 or 1109 motor ??

Lets see a pic from the rear of the caliper in relationship with the disc ect..

I had to put a ''thin'' axel washer between the caliper bracket axel hole & the frame, on 2 that I built.
Another one,, I put a ''thin'' washer between the caliper bracket & frame tab bracket.

You want the caliper straight up & down ''before adjusting'',, not cocked,, & the rotor smack dab in the middle of the caliper slot opening, & not cocked there either,, before adjusting also.
These are not in anyway precise setups when made.

A little ''outside of the box'' tinkering, can get them pretty good though.

Great idea, using a thin washer to get the caliper adjusted. I ended up with the my1020 motor. I've been messing around with voltage. My first run was 12s lipo @ 50.4 fully charged, then 16s @ 67.2. This really woke up the power. Then on the bike stand I threw in 18s and hit the throttle, it sounds crazy fast at 75.6v. the question is weather the 48v controller will handle the 18s. All of these controllers seem the same. And all of them in their descriptions says 48-72v brushless controllers. So does this mean that are all capable of it, but it's just programmed for the battery cutoff at 48v? I have a 60v brushless kit on my 1000w super scooter and have ran that one all the time on 75v.

 

[I74]

Full charge on 48v. - 13s 4p ''li'', is 54.6 volts.

Take a pic of the controller sticker if you can.

I don't recommend 18s - 75.6v, period, especially if the controller only says 48v., you are more than likely going to burn it up.

16s is still iffy @ 67.2,, unless the controller say 48 - 60v.

Motor can handle it though regardless, will just run hotter with more voltage.

60 v controller is configured for a full charge voltage of around 67+v., that's why your scooter is probably fine with that.

Think the higher voltage controllers progress with higher rated ''different value''/''heavier duty'' - Mosfets, Caps,, & resistors,,, ect.

I

 

[Bekkala85]

Full charge on 48v. - 13s 4p ''li'', is 54.6 volts.

Take a pic of the controller sticker if you can.

I don't recommend 18s - 75.6v, period, especially if the controller only says 48v., you are more than likely going to burn it up.

16s is still iffy @ 67.2,, unless the controller say 48 - 60v.

Motor can handle it though regardless, will just run hotter with more voltage.

60 v controller is configured for a full charge voltage of around 67+v., that's why your scooter is probably fine with that.

Think the higher voltage controllers progress with higher rated ''different value''/''heavier duty'' - Mosfets, Caps,, & resistors,,, ect.

I

Ok I will have to look when I get home. I wouldn't want to buy a 72v controller because then I couldn't run 60v battery if I wanted it slower. It's just strange because on eBay if you look up bldc controller most of them say 48-72v bldc. And they look like the same Chinese controller. I wonder if you have to program the voltage limits yourself?

 

[I74]

Looks aren't everything,, especially e-bay ect. ect. ''Chiner stuff''.

Some controllers ''are'' self learning like mine though.
For example,,
If they don't state 48 - 60v ect. on them, then they are probably not self learning.

The ''hot'' popular ''user'' programmable ones,, are pretty much the ''Kelly'' controllers.
You actually hook them up to a lap top ect.
Have a Buddy currently messing around figuring out one of those.

You still have to have the compatible circuitry in them for your voltage needs though,, regardless what they are,, where made,,, & brand ect.

I

 

[Bekkala85]

Looks aren't everything,, especially e-bay ect. ect. ''Chiner stuff''.

Some controllers ''are'' self learning like mine though.
For example,,
If they don't state 48 - 60v ect. on them, then they are probably not self learning.

The ''hot'' popular ''user'' programmable ones,, are pretty much the ''Kelly'' controllers.
You actually hook them up to a lap top ect.
Have a Buddy currently messing around figuring out one of those.

You still have to have the compatible circuitry in them for your voltage needs though,, regardless what they are,, where made,,, & brand ect.

I

So I looked at my 2 controllers I have and they are a 48v and a 60v. So I pulled the 60v controller from my scooter and put it in the moto and did some voltage testing. It would handle 18s with no problem at least I did a 30 min hard ride up big hills as well. I put the temp gun to the controller and it was only 88degrees. So I charged batteries and went for 20s and boy it's fast as hell but the controller was 130 after only 15min. So I decided to just buy a 72v controller. I just loved the feel of the power with that setup. It was on Amazon for $130. It's a 3000w 72v 80a. It's supposed to have automatic voltage identification built in so you can run 48-72v. Supposedly it can handle up to 90v. The one thing I noticed about this 48v 2000w motor I just bought compared to the 60v 2000 watt in my scooter. The initial first few seconds of throttle from a dead stop the 48v motor chatters and feels like it hesitates. The 60v seems to have much smoother take off. They are different brands off Chinese motors.i was thinking about swapping the 60v motor in the bike but it has no mounting plate. Maybe I should have just bought a 72v motor controller package from the get go. Will the 48v overvolted motor spins faster rpm than a 72v motor? Here's pic of my scooter.

 

[I74]

Like R/C brushless stuff,, it depends on the config. of the motor,, on how many rpm's per volt ect.

So,, are you running the 11-75 gearing ??
Bet it's pretty quick.

Stuttering on the motor can be a few things..

One could be that you need better conns. on your main 3 wires.
I would use gold plated bullet conns, like 2.5 - 3mm ones.

Poor connection somewhere else is a possibility..

Another thing, could be that you need a better throttle set up,, that is also rated for the higher voltages .

With one of those, like mine & Fred;'s,, you would be able to read your voltages ect. also.

 

[Bekkala85]

Like R/C brushless stuff,, it depends on the config. of the motor,, on how many rpm's per volt ect.

So,, are you running the 11-75 gearing ??
Bet it's pretty quick.

Stuttering on the motor can be a few things..

One could be that you need better conns. on your main 3 wires.
I would use gold plated bullet conns, like 2.5 - 3mm ones.

Poor connection somewhere else is a possibility..

Another thing, could be that you need a better throttle set up,, that is also rated for the higher voltages .

With one of those, like mine & Fred;'s,, you would be able to read your voltages ect. also.

I didn't have the 11t installed when I ran last. I just put it on now and I couldn't believe how worn out the stock motor sprocket was compared to the new one. Yea Im still using the stock throttle. Ice had different aftermarket throttle that read voltage but I didn't like how easy it was to twist the throttle almost no resistance. The stock ones seems like they have a stiffer spring inside.?

 

[I74]

You keeping the front end down with that 10 - 75 set up ??

Display throttle's we use,, think we got them from e-bay or Ali express.
Spring tensions are pretty much the same as the stock ones.

Here's a pic of mine when I was running the 36v set up.
They make different value ones per applications.

P/S,,
Get yourself a can of Maxima chain wax, if you don't already.

 

[Bekkala85]

You keeping the front end down with that 10 - 75 set up ??

Display throttle's we use,, think we got them from e-bay or Ali express.
Spring tensions are pretty much the same as the stock ones.

Here's a pic of mine when I was running the 36v set up.
They make different value ones per applications.

P/S,,
Get yourself a can of Maxima chain wax, if you don't already.

View attachment 287416

Ok I will check that throttle out. I like it! I'm out riding now and I'm pushing the bike and looking at the chain tension wheel and the chain just rides on top of it the wheel doesn't spin. The bearings are in great shape I pulled them to inspect. Is it suppose to spin all the time? I set my chain tightness in the loose side because it was binding before. Chain moves up and down about an inch both ways.

 

[I74]

Tensioner roller should spin freely like a skateboard wheel, ''free rolling by itself''.

With a chain, you shouldn't go off anything as a ''loose side''.

It's a ''feel thing'',, & you just have to gauge the tension off of a happy medium,, with checking the chain in a ''few different places'',,,,- ''on the- ''top''- center'', while turning the wheel.

Your sprockets might not be 100% true also, & affecting this.

These bikes are ''far'' from precision parts ect.

So,,

''Like I said before'',,,

Are you keeping the front end down ??

Lastly,,

How about's some pics of your work ?

I

 

[Bekkala85]

I'm on trail now. 10t was bringing nose up, not now with 11t. The trails I ride have alot of short hills. Is nice having the extra low end torque. I might switch back to 10t or maybe will wait for new 80a controller before I make any more changes. Here is some pictures.

 

[I74]

Low end torque is always nice for off road .

Bet that figg'n thing would fly on the street with a 6.5 - 1 set up, & street tires !