valve grinder

delray

delray

Well-Known Member
#1
#1
pickup this old valve grinder couple years ago with a bunch of motors. at the time i really didn't want the thing.
Wow, am so glad i got it now.
today i got it out of the shed and gave it a quick clean off and over look everything to see if this thing would move and yes everything was free. well almost everything.



it seem to have a hard time spinning everything at once. i discounted the main belt and only spun the motor. no problem there.
notes right away a pully/idler bearing was gum up. also the pump bearing needed cleaning and regrease. has a grease insert right on the pump shaft housing.
then it also has a cable drive that go's to the valve chuck unit and spin's that.. so i just got alot of cleaning and cleaning so everything can get free up and then we will be good.

pump will need cleaning


i did get to test it out little. i just spun the unit that held the valve and also the grinding stone and it started to clean up the surface of the valve very nicely.


so i will just keep cleaning and cleaning until everything spins free again.
also need to look into what kind of coolant this old machine use? just good old cutting oil? or what?
 
S

SAT

Well-Known Member
#2
#2
I just went over to the Smokstak forum. As if 2008, Hall-Toledo is in business, there is a Yahoo users group, and the machines are well thought-of. There was discussion on the availability of manuals in pdf form.
Hope this helps, cool machine.
Steve
 
delray

delray

Well-Known Member
#3
#3
thanks sat, i have done zero research as of yesterday when i got it out and look at it. great to know there is info out there for it.:thumbsup:
have been looking at the NEWAY VALVE SEAT CUTTER KIT. comes with a 31/46 60/15 angle cuts and standard pilots
that would be the only other thing i would really need to finish the job.
if i was to purchase just a Neway Gizmatic Valve Refacer. that alone would be $400
i think i will go with the old school HALL REFACER for that kind of money..........:thumbsup:
 
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ole4

ole4

#4
#4
Coolant available from beam equipment. They also sell some stones belts and parts. Dont know if they have any hall stuff. They sell coolant on ebay in half and full gallons.
 
ole4

ole4

#5
#5
I bought an old Sioux and rebuilt it, had to make some of the tools, the wheel truer and also a .0001 dial indicator and mount to check stem runout when I reassembled the chuck.
 
delray

delray

Well-Known Member
#6
#6
nice ole4........:thumbsup: looks like it's ready for another 50yrs.
i will have look into coolant on ebay. looks like my unit would take only a half gallon at the most.
what does your coolant look like. something like they use in a CNC machine or more of a oil base coolant?
something i did notes on the grinding stone wheels. some are narrow and some are wide. ..:shrug:
whats the reason for that? maybe for bigger valves? and also give you a better traveling surface to true up
the valve facing...:shrug: but that would really only work if your valve was real big.
one thing i was little surprise was how true it clean up this old tecumseh valve. i only spun the unit by hand for only about a minute and you can clearly see it started to clean up right away. little bit more and it would of clean completely up...:thumbsup:
 
ole4

ole4

#7
#7
Beam had a manual for mine and it only takes on size stone. They have different grits and I got a fine one but using it without coolant the finish was a bit rough. I have not bought the coolant yet as mine was originally dry, but I got a small pump for it. I don't know what the coolant is but it is yellow. grinding the valve dry gets hot and a lot of stone dust. Right now I use it to do 30 degree backcuts on the valves and only on valves that are more than .002 out of round will I regrind the face. If I have old valves then I will use it to reface them but usually I use new valves.
 
delray

delray

Well-Known Member
#8
#8
ole4
Right now I use it to do 30 degree backcuts on the valves
Click to expand...
i notes on the back side of my unit also has a 60 45/90 30 settings

took the pump apart, not much i can do there. i did have little bit of play in the shaft.
so i maybe taking that apart after few valve jobs that i have line up to do.
for now i just grease it up. it has a insert right on top of it......:thumbsup: and like i said earlyer it also had a sealed roller bearing for a belt tensioner and that too was gum up good. it would hardly roll. odd size bearing and i wasn't going to start looking for a new one so i just peel-back the seal and pack it with new grease. now it spins real nice.
only thing that i can think of if i do take it apart and repair it. would be to bore out the casting little and make a brass bushing.
unless things look different for some reason when i do decide to take it completly apart.

notes in the picture all the old grease coming out of the front shaft...:doah:
 
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delray

delray

Well-Known Member
#9
#9
i found a video on a hall valve facer. https://youtu.be/MdAbkThiL24 it's just about the same as my unit. here is the crazy part. the guy was showing some of the extra accessories he had and what they do. right away i notes one item he had that was for truing up the stone. well when i purchase my lathe couple years ago the old guy gave me bunch of extra things and some of it i had no clue on. one of them items go's with this machine. now you got to remember i did not get this machine from this guy with the lathe. this machine came from a total different location and guy.
also remember the old guy with the lathe had a small engine shop and he must of had a hall valve facer too back in the day.:thumbsup:
i will need to clean up the surface. that should be no problem to do.
also it looks to be a oil base coolant. i will soon find out more on that.



more things i look into on this machine . it just gets cooler and cooler to have this little guy around.......:thumbsup:
 
delray

delray

Well-Known Member
#11
#11
ole4, nice to have a dial indicator setup to check for out of roundness and also make a tool post to hold the valve so i can grind the tips. it shouldn't be to hard to make them....:thumbsup: just take some time....:doah:
 
delray

delray

Well-Known Member
#12
#12
well i got little guy to fire up on it's own and it runs real good. it just needed some cleaning and oil and grease.


next i had to look into was why it would only keep the valve true when i had it fully installed in the chuck and i mean all the way in..:doah:


here was the problem or why it was setup like this.
the actual cage that held everything was the reason why. has you can see the valve needed to be all the way in.


picture of the cage still in the chuck.


i think the only way if i wanted the valve to stick out farther would be see if they sold a shorter cage and the end piece that threads out and holds everything in place would need a longer end piece and from the looks of it, does look like it can be remove and replaced with a longer piece.


it still work fine where it was,but i just need to be careful when doing tecumseh valves. there probably one of the shorter valves to deal with.
and just with couple more thousands and that valve clean up very nice...:thumbsup:


clean up the tool post that dressing the wheel.



also found the part that i need to true up the stone with on ebay.


i like it,pretty cool little machine.....:thumbsup:
 
delray

delray

Well-Known Member
#13
#13
might be able to fab up a dial indicator off the the tool post thats use for dressing up the stone.......:rolleyes:
 
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delray

delray

Well-Known Member
#15
#15
thanks for posting them ole4, little lost on the spring insert? does that help keep pressure on it and center in the hole?
i would imagine these little collets would be ideal for a clone valve. reason i say that is my jaws look like they would only hold as small as a 1/4" size(briggs or tecumseh). the clones are smaller 5.5mm? something like that? good thing i don't plan on right now doing any clone stuff.
just all american made stuff on mt first three valve jobs. also them little collets would be nice for real small items if i need to do on my lathe:thumbsup:
 
ole4

ole4

#16
#16
Read thru this link https://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=37667 I think it is post 11 or 12 that they describe making a spring loaded insert into the shank with a 45 dut in it to locate the tip of the valve and keep it concentric at the far end. That is the way the standard Sioux chuck locates the end of the valve. read thru it but here is that post.
Re: Collet chuck for valve grinder "Kwik Way"
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Quote

Post
by racear2865 » Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:59 am
ProPower engines wrote:
Is there much of a chamfered relief on the rear end edge for that chuck.
Since the souix machine relies on the chamfer to be concentric to the OD to align it in the tail stock of the chuck I am curious if you chamferd it slightly or was it good out of the box??

Thanks again
Dave
Dave
No there was no ground chamfer. I set it up in a lathe 4 jaw chuck and indicated it in. I then cut a 45* chamfer on it so it would nestle into the rear of the chuck. That is first. I then made a plug with a inside 45*, just like the Sioux chuck, and pushed it into the rear of the ER11 collet chuck. I put a spring behind it so it would push that plug into the valve to locate the rear of the valve. The spring into the plug worked so well, I am looking at doing the same in the Sioux chuck so it pushes against the valve all the. I push the valve in against the plug and tighten the ER11 chuck that way it is located front and rear. Runout at worst was .0015. If I rechuck a couple times I can get it under .001. I think if I tweek the collet chuck I can get it under .001, dont know for sure just think.
reed
 
delray

delray

Well-Known Member
#17
#17
ok ole4, interesting. thats kind of what i was thinking you where saying. i do like them mini collets. think i am going to order some up.
i purchase a large machinst tool cabinet chest couple years ago and now it's starting to get full.

hey ole4, i purchase neway cutting set that will give me a 3 angle valve job.



tryed it out on a junk block. the same block i use the valve to reface/grind.
work pretty slick. tryed to get a good picture of the 3 angles it cut ,but i just could not get the camera to focus in good.:doah: just ran a green sharpie pen around the face of the valve so it would indicate the seating area. they say if you use the blue machinst die you can just snap the valve couple times and it will show the line. for me i had to spin the valve little to get the magic marker material to come off, it work. it shows a define line about a 1/3 down just like it needs to be.
i only had to spin the cutting tool about a full turn or so and it was done. so much better then trying to use stones. especially on these little engines. surface areas on the seats are so small.
 
delray

delray

Well-Known Member
#19
#19
first thing was to machine out the the inner bore to the correct size

two inner bores done next to a standard bushing.


second thing I needed to do was make a fixture to hold my new oil-lite bushings and keep everything center through the whole process.



double checking to make sure the new bushing fits good.


tap out the end of the fixture.




this will hold the bushing on center and keep it from spinning.




next I needed to cut down the bushing to the correct length(.750).

 
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