Bonanza Chopper

#1
Picked up this cute little guy today. It had a 5" steelie on the front and the wrong seat. No number tag, and there are no rivet holes either. I'm not an expert on these bikes so I've got a few questions.
This bike has a jack shaft....Is it true that only the Hodaka bikes had this?
There is a mount for the brake cable on BOTH sides, and they both look factory. is that right?
The cylindrical tank that goes on the frame, what size is it? I've heard 4"x7", but I've also seen the smaller 3 1/4"x7" ones. Did all of the chopper frames get the tank bracket, even if it came with a engine mounted tank?
 
#2
Chopper

Congrats on your frame! Bonanza changed the frame a little bit, adding the jackshaft mounts and adding additional slotted holes to allow for the Hodaka engine. But I think all the frames eventually were made this way, and the Tecumseh powered CR400 version didn't use the jackshaft. Because the Hodaka uses the jackshaft with the wheel sprocket on the opposite side from the Tecumseh rear wheel set up, they had to be able to set the brake up on either side, hence the cable bracket on both sides. Look at your engine mounting plate for the wear pattern where the engine would be, even under recent paint, this will tell you if yours was a Hodaka powered or Tecumseh powered bike and which model it would be called. The cylindrical gas tank was an option for the Tecumseh powered model. The tanks were 4 X 7 and were the shorter of the two that Bonanza made. All frames came with the little box shape flat bar mount near the headstock of the frame. Good luck with your restoration. There's a guy on this site who makes reproduction Bonanza brake drum sprockets and ones that will fit the Azusa Astro wheels if you want the "Torque Thrust" style wheel. Also Bonanzamini makes reproduction parts but are pricey, but excellent. I'd use the rear wheel that you've got, but you could use almost anything up front till you can get a kidney bean wheel. I have an extra used seat in fair condition if you need one. Even a bare fiberglass pan is hard to come by to have recovered. The exact reproduction seats are quite expensive. Here's a picture of my second chopper with my spare seat. My avatar picture is the chopper I've had since 1970.
 
#3
Hodaka

Looking more closely at your pictures, I see that you have the smaller diameter rear sprocket and the jack shaft and I'm thinking you may have what was a Hodaka powered CR 500. You also have the newer style Carlisle tread rear tire that came with the Hodaka era frames. I have been gathering some Hodaka motors and parts to put a motor together for one of my bikes. You can actually still get a new off shelf Hodaka Ace 100 for your bike, but it's two grand to get what you need. Check out the pics of Bayareaburrito's mini choppers, he's on this site and is helpful with minichopper info. He's got a great CR-500 in this picture, I find it inspirational.
 
#4
Mark G

:thumbsup: NICE SCORE :thumbsup:

Looks like a keeper. Still has some of it's original orange paint
I believe bonanza offered the Scout CR-500 with either a 4HP tech or the Hodaka ace 100
Not sure about the brake adjuster being on both side's of the frame though? I'll have to check mine the next time I visit where I have it stored.
Also not sure why it is that you do not have an ID tag or the holes where it should have been located on the frame.
The round tank was a optional item if you had the 4HP version.
I'm sure everyone's seen mine and doesn't want to see it again but what the hay :thefinger:

Thanks for the plug Marksteinhilber
 
#5
Thanks for the info guys. I happened to have a NOS seat I've been saving and a spare kidney bean front so I'm set there. A little brakleen on the motor plate and it looks like a Tecumseh footprint to me. HS40??
I have a sweet 4x7 tank that came off of an old Jacobsen mower, only thing is the petcock is on the same side as the filler opening. I know on the other Bonanzas (non choppers) they are on opposite ends, but other than that I see no difference. I'm still perplexed about the lack of ID plate, or even holes. I looked on the underside and there are definitely no holes....Hmmmmm...
The rear sprocket and brake are in real good shape with minimal wear. The back tire is a no name, as in there is no name on the side, just the size and MADE IN THE USA on it.
A great score, even with the 4+ hr. round trip.:thumbsup:
 
#7
Nice find. This pic could answer some questions. :thumbsup: That engine on that bike is a joke though. :doah:



Yeah but it does look nice all tucked up in that little orange frame.:thefinger:
And if your not carefull it'll put you on your ass quick and in a hurry.
The chicks go ape at the shows! They all wannna ride on that little black banana seat
 
#10
Don't forget...there was a CR 410...Tecumseh powered with a jackshaft. The motor plate on your bike looks like it had a Tec on it.
Cool, CR 410- thats what I thought, I saw that brochure but it was a little hard to see the details. It looks like that one has the mounts for the jackshaft, but it's not used. There's a frame on ebay right now, but the motor plate is different than mine. Plus there is a funky bracket otn the top tube under where the seat mounts- is that for exhaust??
BONANZA CR400 Mini Bike Chopper FRAME - TACO RUPP:eBay Motors (item 300321457256 end time Jun-20-09 19:00:00 PDT)
And then theres this one...
1970 BONANZA Chopper MINT Mini Bike Hodaka Taco :eBay Motors (item 250439946031 end time Jun-14-09 17:45:18 PDT)
 
#15
Scout CR 400

OK, there are at least two distinct series of frames for the Bonanza mini chopper. I have owned my Scout CR 400 (made by Bonanza) since 1970. Here's a picture. yes the motor plate was rewelded in 1972. yes, some of the chrome is new and the paint is Duplicolor Chevy Orange engine paint. Yes, I put the STP stickers on the engine when I was 12. No, my bike is not exactly like the brochures and parts list that I still have, but i is exactly how it was purchased from a line of mini choppers at the Harley Dealer where it was bought in 1970.

No, it never had a bonanza red round plate with serial number. I haven't found a serial number on the frame. I bought another mini chopper to restore for my boy. It has the Jack shaft brackets and brake cable tabs on both sides. It has no red round Bonanza emblem nor does it have holes to mount one. It does not seem to have a serial number that I can find. The motor mount plate is different than my first bike. It is not a flat plate welded on top of the tubes. The sides are folded over. The wear pattern is definitely that of a Tecumseh HS 40. The second bike came with a different tread 530x6 Carlisle tire than my first mini chopper. But that tire shows up on all the other mini choppers with the jackshaft frame You can see it in the before restoration, second photo below. The other difference I have noticed is with the sprocket diameter, number of teeth, differences in the brake assembly, added chain tesioners, and the throttle and hand brake parts suppliers.

As for the other pictures posted in this discussion. One must realize that many of these bikes have obviously been restored and have some reporduction parts. These bikes are not with their first owner, and how does one know what is original or correct unless they are the original owner, built or sold them, or had one way back when. What makes a CR -410 different? You don't know unless you have an original brochure that says what it has that makes it different. The fancy bikes sometimes have reproduction parts made to match what the brochures showed on a sales model, but bikes actually sold were sometimes different. My first is a Scout model. The brochures say Scout. My bike has some differences from the brochures, yet my parts list for "69 models shows what was available. Notice different clutch covers, different mufflers, etc.
 
#16
Right side sprocket

Gee, when I restore my second bike, which side should I put the rear sprocket and brake on? I guess when it's a restoration and you use the jackshaft and it has brake cable clips on both sides, you can do it either way. So what is right? Maybe the brochure shows, but Bonanza may have switched the way they set them up at anytime. It comes down to this: there is a difference between a bike that is in original condition with a known history and one that is a restoration that may be set up slightly different and have reproduction parts. Both have their merits.

Does it matter. Maybe to the owner, a buyer, or a collector. I know my original bike is as it was bought first hand. The restoration bikes are gorgeous, near perfection, and to be admired. Either way people love either one. I still love riding mine. My boy's bike will will probably look nicer and have a chrome tank. I'll never sell either one. So is that one on e-bay worth $3500? Maybe to someone that wants a beautifully restored one really bad. Ok, I guess maybe I'd sell one for $20,000. Trade for a 70 'cuda convertible...
 
#17
I think you have the correct rear tire for that version of frame. My jackshaft bike had that same tire. It changed from the '69 model where the tread was the same on the front 410 and the rear 530 tires, both Carlisle with the Indian heads.
 
#18
As for the other pictures posted in this discussion. One must realize that many of these bikes have obviously been restored and have some reporduction parts. These bikes are not with their first owner, and how does one know what is original or correct unless they are the original owner, built or sold them, or had one way back when.
I totally agree, unless you had it since new, who knows who did what to it over the years. I have a friend that thinks that whenever he gets a new find that it's "all original":eek:ut:, even though the bike may very well be not.
As far as what model came with what options, I realize that these were mass produced, and at back then no one cared about exact correctness and originality. They just pumped em out the door.

I blame the corvette guys for messing everything up with "restorations". Corvettes used to be the pinnacle of American hot rods, then sometime in the 70s-80s along came the resto crowd and that changed everything. Oh, this car needs to be correct and exact, your brakelines are the wrong shade of cad plating, those are the wrong wheels, etc. The coolest vette I've ever seen (and I am NOT a vette guy) was up in on Cliffton hill in Canada and I think it was a 62. It had aftermarket side pipes, steel wheels up front, HUGE meats out back on old magnesium torq thrusts, a killer rake, no top, the interior was filthy, it had scratches, and a hole cut in the hood for the tunnel ram. The guy that was driving it had a smile from ear to ear. :smile: I'm sure it made the purists sick.:thumbsup:
The resto madness continues. First the Vettes, then the muscle cars, and it's starting to spread to minibikes now too. Having restod a handful of cars (before it was cool) I can totally appreciate all of the work and TIME someone puts into their machine, and your right, the redone bikes in this thread are absolutely BEAUTIFUL. I say who cares what is "correct", if it is yours and you like it thats all that matters. I love my 442, and I built it for myself, so the guy that tells me that my steering wheel is the wrong year can go pound salt.

Ultimately it's up to the owner on what to do, it's a shame that this stuff is starting to become investment material. It brings out the people who don't really care about the machine, it's all about money.:thumbdown:

By the way Markstienhilber, I remember when you got that funky red chopper and everyone gave you crap for it, but you stuck to your guns and paid what you thought was fair. Do I think that $3500 one is worth it? hard to say, if money was no object and time was a factor, maybe. But someone sees that and all the sudden they think theirs is worth the same. :eek:ut:Just like the Barret Jackson effect.
 
#19
I have heard several different things about Bonanzas like that they :

Sometimes they put bikes together from what parts they had in inventory just to get orders out. That would explain alot of the puzzling bikes

Also heard that the 50 or so chopper frames were made from 1" tubing.

Early 1410 MX had 35 chain from motor to JS and 41 chain from JS to rear sprocket.

The list is probably much much longer.

In short, I think the brochures are what they intended the bike to look like. These bikes were relatively cheap toys. The main purpose was to make a profit for the company owner. So any changes in production needed to meet that goal, I'm sure happened.
 
#20
In short, I think the brochures are what they intended the bike to look like. These bikes were relatively cheap toys. The main purpose was to make a profit for the company owner. So any changes in production needed to meet that goal, I'm sure happened.
I agree 100%:thumbsup:
 
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