briggs recoil question

[boondocks1953]

So I'm working on my tule trooper. Got it started and running fine. Took it for a ride (just up and down the street and around the yard a couple laps). Enough to get it nice and warmed up.
So heres the problem. I shut it down and roll it in the garage to tinker and when I try to restart it the recoil just freewheels and doesnt grab. So I think dang it I broke the recoil. Well after about an hour or so the bike is cool and the recoil now works again??? Take it for a ride and stop...same problem.:doah::censure:
Is this recoil just jacked up or is there like a safety thing I dont know about on old briggs when there hot???
Does the same thing every time:cursing::helpsmilie::confused1:

 

[5 Horse Fan]

It looks like your motor uses the old style ball bearing recoil.

The ball bearings hook in one direction, and retract in the other direction.
When the engine is running, the spinning engine causes the ball bearings to slide outward of the case so they don't make noise or make contact with the hooks.
(If your confused, take the clutch out and open it up.)

Usually when the recoil doesn't grab, it is caused by missing ball bearings in the clutch mechanism.
Also, there could be grease or oil in the mechanism that causes the ball bearings to stick in the outward position.

 

[The Restore Kid]

Yup, sounds right to me.... The ratchet system is just ball bearings rolling around in a cup... When the engine is not running.. Gravity lets the ball LOCK up the center shaft and the outer hub.. When the engine is running, centerfugal force throws the ball bearing to the OUTSIDE of the cup and they are safely out of the way.. What you need to do is take your cover off, take the 1/4 inch screws out that holds the screen and ratchet cover out, then pop that cover off from your ratchet thing... NOW you can see the ball bearings OR they fell out on the floor.... What you need to do is clean EVERYTHING up real good.. I use like a flat screwdriver or something to pick out any debris and greese and goop that is in the cup, I use a rag to rub the bearings all off clean and shiny... The center shaft thing will pull right off if the cover is off... Take THAT thing off clean IT all up... ALSO clean the crank shaft up with a rag or something.... THEN once everything is good and clean....

I use a bushing lube but transmission fluid works good too..
Dab a little on your crank shaft and a little dab INSIDE that square ratchet shaft.... put it on the crank again and spin it around a few times to make sure it's spinning freely, Tip your motor to the side away from you a little... Then you drop one ball bearing back in per hole where they ride... Once all THAT is done, lube up the rubber gasket that seals the cover and square shaft... I like to just wipe a little (tranny fluid or whatever you are using) around the inside of that plastic rubber gasket thing, then push the cover back on... YOU ALWAYS want to make sure the cover is on square and it spins EASILY... if it is all together right that center piece should spin pretty easily.. If the cover is bent, or not on strait, it will bind up and the ratchet thing won't free spin very well... But once you have it all cleaned up, the center shaft lubed against the crank shaft of the engine, and the rubber gasket in the cover, it all works well, put the bolts all back together and you should be good..
:thumbsup: OH AND ALSO put all of your shroud bolts in but not TIGHT... then try pulling the rope out a little and watch it recoil back in... Make SURE you get the shroud bolted down right because if IT is not strait, IT will bind up your little ratchet thing TOO and it won't recoil very well... maybe even make a screaching squeeling noise when it's running...
:doah: But basically what your problem is, is those ball bearings in there sticking to the cup they ride in VIA dirt and rust and greese deposits, and it needs to be cleaned... I should write a "How Too" about this huh? :lol: HEY HENT!!! Thats what you should call one of those pic catagorys... (Step By Step How To's)

 

[boondocks1953]

Thanks guys. That was pretty much the plan for tonight to tear it all apart and clean it so I can see what i can see:thumbsup:
Just had never had one that works perfect when cold, but doesnt work at all Hot:shrug:
You would think the heat would loosen grease and oile and make it work better hot and stick the ball bearing when cold.
We'll see how she does after a good cleaning:drinkup:

 

[The Restore Kid]

That is a mystery nobody will ever know.... NO, if it is all clean... Nothing but bare steel and aluminum all nice and rubbed down with a Q-Tip inside the bouncy ball area, and the spinny parts are all lubed, things are aligned right, they work pretty great..... WHY do they work when they are hot or cold? Tipped to the left?? Every third pull??? Who knows... that is just what that particular ball that is next in line happens to be stuck to at the time.. :shrug: clean them and they will stop.. :thumbsup:

 

[boondocks1953]

My buddy has a honda three wheeler that is legendary for the ol' 3rd pull half way out jerk your arm out of the socket routine:lol:
You definately get to hear some new curse words invented when his does that!
Just had the alternator take a crap in my blazer so I get to fix that first before the recoil. But at least its on a chevy with a tensioner so it will take longer to go buy it than replace it. At least one easy job tonight, thats hardly ever how it works:smile:

 

[The Restore Kid]

Yeah... you can do that in the house.. :wink: I put this together in the living room a few hours ago..

[/IMG]

 

[boondocks1953]

LMAO!! :bowdown::xmas-smiley-016::bowdown:

Ramming speed!!!! You need my fat butt on there to put some weight on that back tire! you could have got a couple extra feet. lol:thumbsup:

 

[The Restore Kid]

:lol: It would have done a LOT better if the damn Tillotson carburetor would run for shit... Evidently it needs a bigger high speed jet because it bogs right out when ya dump the air to it.....:glare: With the idle fuel WAYY too rich, and the high speed screw about to fall out it was ALMOST coming alive... It would go ALMOST wide open down the road if ya feather your way into it... But trying to go wide open kills it... WOW does it have some power though if it would just RUN when ya get on it.. :bowdown: BALLS to the wall... Until it starts stumbling... :glare:

 

[boondocks1953]

So a guy I work with thats into small engines came up with the answer. When the engine is hot the bearings are sticking when the heat makes them expand. the area is probably filled with crud and when they expand from heat they stick and when they cool they shrink down enough to pass. Which makes perfect sense. Sometimes it takes an old farm boy to show you the light:doah:
Dont know why I didnt think of that since i know you use ice to shrink down cylinder sleeves from my tractor days:doah: Sometimes I guess it takes someone on the outside looking at the problem to see the solution:thumbsup:
Either way the fix is still tearing it down and cleaning it out and dropping a little oil in it.
Thanks for the help everyone:thumbsup:

 

[The Restore Kid]

So a guy I work with thats into small engines came up with the answer. When the engine is hot the bearings are sticking when the heat makes them expand. the area is probably filled with crud and when they expand from heat they stick and when they cool they shrink down enough to pass. Which makes perfect sense. Sometimes it takes an old farm boy to show you the light:doah:
Dont know why I didnt think of that since i know you use ice to shrink down cylinder sleeves from my tractor days:doah: Sometimes I guess it takes someone on the outside looking at the problem to see the solution:thumbsup:
Either way the fix is still tearing it down and cleaning it out and dropping a little oil in it.
Thanks for the help everyone:thumbsup:

:lol: :lol: :lol: the only problem with that answer is it makes absolutely NO sense at all what so ever scientifically... :lol: Those balls are always the same temperature no matter if the engine is on fire or just sitting there. They are way way far away from any heat and being spun at 3,600 rpms at the VERY CORTEX of the cooling fan.. :doah:
.. THAT is only a fraction of the problem when you ALSO factor in the fact that The balls are hardened steel harder than the hubs of hell, and 1'4 inch in diameter perfect spheres, and you'd have to get them 800 degrees for them expand far enough to even register on a pair of dial calipers.... :doah:
THIRDLY even IF YOU COULD get them to expand a GREAT deal.... It would make absolutely NO difference because the balls roll freely in a BIG OPEN pocket.. There is no tunnel or something perfect sized to the ball... :lol: :lol:

I think his heart was in the right place.. He just evidently never saw how one works is all... :doah:
IF.. Your ball bearing dudes are STICKING and NOT working ONLY when the engine is warm......... It is NOT because of the heat.... It is because of the fact that the bull :001_9898: that is built up inside the unit.... Is always at the bottom of the cup area (gravity) What is happening is it works correctly and the balls are FLUNG OUTWARD to the outside of that cavity area like they are supposed to... Only NOW there is half rusty oil dirt gunk :001_9898: stuff in there and the center fugal force smashes the balls into it and they get stuck and hung up there... :thumbsup: OR....... if you STILL wanted to argue the fact that it heats up in there more than 2 or 3 degrees.. (and be wrong) You could try to argue the point that the stuff is warm and gooey and NOW the balls want to stick and hang up.. :lol:
But the bottom line is you just need to disassemble the thing and clean it all how I explained it for ya and you will be %100 awesome.. :thumbsup:

But the old farmer is just giving ya a best guess.... :lol:

 

[boondocks1953]

:lol: :lol: :lol: the only problem with that answer is it makes absolutely NO sense at all what so ever scientifically...

OR....... if you STILL wanted to argue the fact that it heats up in there more than 2 or 3 degrees.. (and be wrong) You could try to argue the point that the stuff is warm and gooey and NOW the balls want to stick and hang up.. :lol:
But the bottom line is you just need to disassemble the thing and clean it all how I explained it for ya and you will be %100 awesome.. :thumbsup:

But the old farmer is just giving ya a best guess.... :lol:

Wasn't trying to argue!:shrug: Sorry to pose a theory on here, if I new it was against the rules I wouldnt have done so. :bowdown::bowdown::bowdown:

Guess I'll go elsewhere to pose questions and theories.

Later and goodbye for good.

 

[metal man]

Wasn't trying to argue!:shrug: Sorry to pose a theory on here, if I new it was against the rules I wouldnt have done so. :bowdown::bowdown::bowdown:

Guess I'll go elsewhere to pose questions and theories.

Later and goodbye for good.

a theory is just a unproven fact . i think the theory you put up is valid and so is restore kids , it could also be the motor gremlins or those dam under pants gnomes .
your buddy could be wright on the heat soak thing but not the balls the housing could warp . i had one that ONLY worked in the winter . it would jam and bust ropes and puke the rope out of the recoil ,jam tight ,pull spring out if it was warm out like summer . after fighting with it for 2 weeks i changed the whole thing and smashed the old one with the sledge . never had any trouble after that ,the old one was clean and looked fine so sometimes good parts dont work .
i have had the same kind of shit with car parts . i was told that the ignition block on my car ether worked or it dont . i fought for a month with running problems had the coil checked, new wires and test everything i could think of nothing worked . then with a massive back fire one night it quit:censure: running the ignition controller blew sky:censure: high changed it and it ran like new . so anything can happen .

boondocks i hope your not leaving us for good .

 

[The Restore Kid]

Wasn't trying to argue!:shrug: Sorry to pose a theory on here, if I new it was against the rules I wouldnt have done so. :bowdown::bowdown::bowdown:

Guess I'll go elsewhere to pose questions and theories.

Later and goodbye for good.

HAHAHAH!!! Hey no I wasn't tryin to argue with ya... I was just saying.... That's not exactly the problem... Clean the ratchet system up and you will be all good... Nobody is trying to be an :asshole:
Everybody is just here to help... :doah: Don't take it personally.. I just got a kick out of it and giggles, and didn't want ya to make the whole process more difficult on yourself is all. :doah: You're fine... nobody is trying to be mean.. :wink:

 

[125ccCrazy]

Wasn't trying to argue!:shrug: Sorry to pose a theory on here, if I new it was against the rules I wouldnt have done so. :bowdown::bowdown::bowdown:

Guess I'll go elsewhere to pose questions and theories.

Later and goodbye for good.

Don't leave, oppinions are like azzholes, everyone has one and there are plenty of both out there.. and before anyone jumps me, I'm NOT calling anyone an azzhole, just a figure of speach...

I would tear your recoil/clutch apart, clean it good, reassemble with some light oil and you should be good unless the balls are worn or have flat spots in them..

 

[The Restore Kid]

Don't leave, oppinions are like azzholes, everyone has one and there are plenty of both out there.. and before anyone jumps me, I'm NOT calling anyone an azzhole, just a figure of speach...

I would tear your recoil/clutch apart, clean it good, reassemble with some light oil and you should be good unless the balls are worn or have flat spots in them..

:lol: Yeah, he seemed to have taken that WAY out of context I think... :shrug: