Clone oil
- Thread starter CDM
- Start date
I cast my vote for the classic stand-by lawnmower oil, straight 30W.
Synthetic oil in a one-lunged non-racing clone engine is a waste of cash. However, if that’s what you have laying around in quantity, it’s fine to use of course. But any quality dino oil (non synthetic) is all you need, just be sure to change it often per manufacturer recommendations because as it gets dirtier and thicker, it no longer gets distributed to the vital parts inside the engine (by the oil slinger) as well as it did when new.
I’ve cracked open a few abused engines that, yes indeed had oil in them, but it had long turned to sludge and the crankshaft journal, cylinder sleeve, etc was scored to hell as a result of oil starvation.
Rotella T6 is the exact oil I use in my turbo Saabie, but I refrain from using it in anything else as it is designed for automotive use along with a filter. You’re not gonna see the same benefits in an non-filtered, splash-lubricated minibike motor.... IMHO
Synthetic oil in a one-lunged non-racing clone engine is a waste of cash. However, if that’s what you have laying around in quantity, it’s fine to use of course. But any quality dino oil (non synthetic) is all you need, just be sure to change it often per manufacturer recommendations because as it gets dirtier and thicker, it no longer gets distributed to the vital parts inside the engine (by the oil slinger) as well as it did when new.
I’ve cracked open a few abused engines that, yes indeed had oil in them, but it had long turned to sludge and the crankshaft journal, cylinder sleeve, etc was scored to hell as a result of oil starvation.
Rotella T6 is the exact oil I use in my turbo Saabie, but I refrain from using it in anything else as it is designed for automotive use along with a filter. You’re not gonna see the same benefits in an non-filtered, splash-lubricated minibike motor.... IMHO
Last edited:
There IS a difference between automotive oils and air cooled engine oils. The difference is the anti foam additive. Air cooled engines with their oil slingers aerate the oil way more than car engines with an oil pump. Oil slingers can turn regular oil to foam. Lawn mower type oils would be a much better choice. For those that don't want to buy or see the need for Amsoil 4T Briggs oil, you can buy Valvoline 4 stroke motorcycle oil at Walmart for not much money. It has the additives needed for oil slingers and air cooled engines.
JMO Danford1
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Valvolin...75035&wl11=online&wl12=16879749&wl13=&veh=sem
JMO Danford1
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Valvolin...75035&wl11=online&wl12=16879749&wl13=&veh=sem
I don't know... In what manual does it say to use automotive oils? I'm curious. Thanks
Danford1
PS. Here is a copy paste from Amsoil's website. It mentions anti foaming agents.
Fights Engine Wear
Synthetic 4T Racing Oil is engineered with powerful anti-foam agents. It resists foam common to high-rpm operation to form a durable lubricating film between engine parts, keeping engines protected in the most extreme conditions.
Resists Corrosion
Synthetic 4T Racing Oil contains corrosion inhibitors to guard against the formation of corrosion between races and during longer periods of storage.
Danford1
PS. Here is a copy paste from Amsoil's website. It mentions anti foaming agents.
Fights Engine Wear
Synthetic 4T Racing Oil is engineered with powerful anti-foam agents. It resists foam common to high-rpm operation to form a durable lubricating film between engine parts, keeping engines protected in the most extreme conditions.
Resists Corrosion
Synthetic 4T Racing Oil contains corrosion inhibitors to guard against the formation of corrosion between races and during longer periods of storage.
- Tested and Validated by Briggs & Stratton and AMSOIL
- Combines the protection of a heavier oil with the performance of a lite oil
- Reduces harmful heat
- Inhibits foam
- Resists corrosion
Looks like they use silicon as an anti foaming agent. Automotive oil also contains some anti foaming agent.
The Walmart Valvoline oil mentioned has pretty high amounts of silicon (ppm) compared to other oils in the source.
Here are 2 examples. One automotive and the Walmart Valvoline motorcycle oil. Note that the testing is old and the formula could have changed by now.
Valvoline VR1 10W30 “SYNTHETIC” Racing Oil API SL (Black Bottle, lab tested 2011)
Silicon = 8 ppm (anti-foaming agent in new oil, but in used oil, certain gasket materials and dirt can also add to this number)
Valvoline 10W40 4 Stroke Motorcycle Oil API SJ conventional (lab tested 2008)
Silicon = 20 ppm (anti-foaming agent in new oil, but in used oil, certain gasket materials and dirt can also add to this number)
Source: https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/
The Walmart Valvoline oil mentioned has pretty high amounts of silicon (ppm) compared to other oils in the source.
Here are 2 examples. One automotive and the Walmart Valvoline motorcycle oil. Note that the testing is old and the formula could have changed by now.
Valvoline VR1 10W30 “SYNTHETIC” Racing Oil API SL (Black Bottle, lab tested 2011)
Silicon = 8 ppm (anti-foaming agent in new oil, but in used oil, certain gasket materials and dirt can also add to this number)
Valvoline 10W40 4 Stroke Motorcycle Oil API SJ conventional (lab tested 2008)
Silicon = 20 ppm (anti-foaming agent in new oil, but in used oil, certain gasket materials and dirt can also add to this number)
Source: https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/
Oil is always a touchy subject. Use whatever you are comfortable using. Many people swear that oil needs a lot of zinc and phos to prevent wear but if you read that website named above (540ratblog) you will see that is False. That website is really good in my opinion. It is a very loonnggg read but full of great info backed by scientific testing, not just hear say 
Danford1
Danford1
Last edited:
If you think about it, we're dealing with one oil slinger. Now think about an auto engine, that thing has multiple slingers, it's called the crankshaft. There you have multiple oil slingers working on the oil. So foaming in them is even more so a problem you have to deal with.
Automotive oil has to have conditioners to reduce foaming too.
T6 is a great oil for our applications. That said, I use Motul 300V in my bikes, why not, the sponsor pays for it. LOL!
Automotive oil has to have conditioners to reduce foaming too.
T6 is a great oil for our applications. That said, I use Motul 300V in my bikes, why not, the sponsor pays for it. LOL!
I imagine oil foaming only becomes a problem in high RPM applications, and not the low revs we see putt-putting around on these classic mini bikes, the majority of which I’d say are governed or in factory spec.
In that regard though, I’d sure like to see a typical 3, 4, 5, 6 or 7HP engine fitted with a clear side cover or a window so we can see the slinger and oil in action. A clear cylinder head’s been done on a Briggs flathead, so why not a see-through crankcase?
Maybe there’s not much to see but a thick oil mist....:shrug:
In that regard though, I’d sure like to see a typical 3, 4, 5, 6 or 7HP engine fitted with a clear side cover or a window so we can see the slinger and oil in action. A clear cylinder head’s been done on a Briggs flathead, so why not a see-through crankcase?
Maybe there’s not much to see but a thick oil mist....:shrug:
You guys are confusing foaming with air entrainment. All engine oils are designed to reduce both to a minimum because both are problematic for lubrication in general. That said, lube oils don't really foam much at all. Air entrainment can't be completely avoided and if active measures aren't taken to separate the air, then it's just a waiting game. Engines with forced oiling usually have large sumps and oil volumes where the air has time to escape.
Utility engines are not hard on their oil. They have ample cooling and very low specific output.
That's not a problem with the oil though. Darkening is usually caused by carbon in suspension if it's not caused by overheating of the oil. The carbon comes from combustion byproducts. The oil is designed to keep it in suspension so it doesn't turn into sludge. The darkness of the oil doesn't correlate to how well it's working.
Utility engines are not hard on their oil. They have ample cooling and very low specific output.
That's not a problem with the oil though. Darkening is usually caused by carbon in suspension if it's not caused by overheating of the oil. The carbon comes from combustion byproducts. The oil is designed to keep it in suspension so it doesn't turn into sludge. The darkness of the oil doesn't correlate to how well it's working.
Unless you're pushing through an environment 800 times and dense as air, hauling a 1,000 lbs moose or a haul of fish, and you have to get back before the squall hits without the engine blowing up. Yeah, I'll take synthetic any day. Some of us are pushing our engines far more than what any racing engine will see.
