Clutch engages while idling

[PicNroll]

I just swapped out a new doodlebug with a bad carb (old body style) for a new style db30 that seemed to run great for the first 30 minutes.

Before riding the bike for the first time, I oiled up the clutch bearing per the advice of the mechanic from Northern Tool. The bike ran great for my son for the first 30 minutes (he's 8 yrs old and 65-70 lbs). He then took a break for about an hour, and after cranking and letting the bike warm up (it's about 35 degrees) afterward, the clutch automatically engaged during idle, made a funky noise and the engine cut off. It is almost exactly like the video that was posted over a year ago on this forum here:

Doodlebug clutch problem

Unfortunately, in the thread above, the original poster never responded as to what he did to resolve his problem.

I assumed that it was the clutch because I would crank it, lift the back end, and watch the tire start spinning quickly when it made the funky noise. I called Northern Tool to explain what happened, and I was told to re-apply oil to the clutch bearing again. I wasn't very hopeful, but I gave it a try. Sure enough, it resolved the issue. Well ... for awhile at least. He rode it around for another 30 minutes, then let it sit for an hour or so. Same thing happened when starting it up again after this.

So, my question is whether I should keep lubing the clutch bearing this often, or if I should try anything else. Any suggestions?

 

[Dudlydoodleright]

Is the sound a kind of clang clang ring a ding ding ding??? If so it's the sound the clutch makes just before engagement. I bet your idle is a bit to fast.

 

[Strigoi]

i'd also make sure the chain isn't too tight. you want 1/2"-3/4" of play in the chain.

 

[PicNroll]

I'll check the chain in the morning.

The sound isn't a clinking/clanking sound, but rather a harsh grinding sound like sticking something into a table fan to try to stop it from rotating. You kinda hear the sound in the link I gave above right before the kid's DB cuts off.

 

[Strigoi]

that noise is something binding up. one of mine used to do that but it's been years and i can't remember exactly what we did to fix it.

i really want to say that loosening up the chain a bit helped (back when we thought tight was good). it only takes a second to check and if it needs more slack sliding the engine back a hair only takes a minute.

i'd also make sure the engine is centered which could also cause the chain to put pressure on the clutch at an angle.

 

[Dudlydoodleright]

Please tell me your oiling with motor oil and not WD40.
Also that the chain is not too tight.

 

[PicNroll]

I actually used both oil and wd40 ... only because the mechanic at Northern Tool told me to use wd40 with oil on top of it. Is that bad?

 

[den35]

Just my opinnion,but WD40 was designed to free stuck parts,not for longer term lubrication.It may even break down any oil that's in the clutch bushing,causing bushing failure and posibly binding the clutch on the shaft.

My call would be to remove the clutch and inspect and/or replace the bushing.Or if you're not that driven to do it,replace the clutch.They aren't very expesive nowadays.

 

[Dudlydoodleright]

WD40 is used to remove wax and grease--WD wax and degreaser--if you had too much WD40 in the space between the shaft and bushing then oiled it, it can wash out the fresh oil. Pull it, clean it ,get all the WD40 off it, oil it, look at it and see if it has galled if so hone or replace.

 

[cudaman]

WD (as in WD40) stands for water displacement. It should not be used as a lubricant because it will leave behind a sticky gum after it evaporates. It was designed for spraying things like automotive distributor caps to remove moisture.

 

[The Restore Kid]

If the chain is not over tight, the next thing to do would be just blast everything out with brake parts cleaner.. THEN re-lube the clutch.. Usually a clutch grabbing like that will be caused by crap burnt onto the drum or into the bushing area.. If it's new and never been cleaned, had WD40 ran through it, it probably needs cleaned out.. I'd just spray the drum and flyweights and bushing all out real good with brake parts cleaner, then dab a little two cycle oil or transmission fluid on your bushing area and roll the bike around a little so it works down in there..

I use the little can with pointer hose.. get it right in between the drum and hub, then slowly squeeze some oil to it as it's leaned way over and slowly rolling across the floor.. :laugh: works the best as far as I've found..

 

[Planethill]

My sons did the exact same thing. A loud grinding/binding sound followed by the engine dieing.

In his case, the idle was simply too high and the bushing needed some oil.

WD40 is used to remove wax and grease--WD wax and degreaser

LOL...now that's an urban legend I hadn't heard yet. :laugh:

WD40 is simply 15% mineral oil in a gas-propelled solvent. It has it uses, but long term lubrication isn't one of them.

WD-40 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Dudlydoodleright]

I've also heard it called water dispersant-it cleans up emulsified oil, parrafins, old grease, some paints-Wikipedia is not always such a in the know source-Two aviation pioneers it does not even mention what it was they were known for-Wrong Way Waterman and Captain Barnaby-Wiki never mentions that Waldo Waterman first became famous for flying New York to Parris the wrong way (Parris to New York) (first man to do so) or that he was known as Wrong Way!!!! said it's because he invented a tailless mono plane! PS Captain Barnaby was the first man to fly a plane off the deck of a naval ship-don't bother looking it up in Wiki.

 

[PicNroll]

Ok - I was a little worried about the WD40 after all the replies, but after re-lubing with more motor oil and loosening the chain (moving the motor) a little, all has been well. We haven't noticed the problem at all any more. I've made sure to re-lube the bearing with motor oil each morning, and my son is having a ball. So, I think that issue is now resolved ... knock on wood.

Of course, I will post another question as a different thread in a moment ... I bet you guys are a bit tired of newbies like me (hope not, I sure appreciate the knowledge).
Thanks!
- PicNroll

 

[Planethill]

Wikipedia is not always such a in the know source-Two aviation pioneers it does not even mention what it was they were known for-Wrong Way Waterman and Captain Barnaby-Wiki never mentions that Waldo Waterman first became famous for flying New York to Parris the wrong way (Parris to New York) (first man to do so) or that he was known as Wrong Way!!!! said it's because he invented a tailless mono plane! PS Captain Barnaby was the first man to fly a plane off the deck of a naval ship-don't bother looking it up in Wiki.

Then add it yourself! That's the beauty of Wikipedia. If you have info, anyone can add/change it...just make sure you have sources to prove your claim. Your knowledge of these wrong way guys will make that Wiki entry better for everyone else!

As for WD40, from the horses mouth: "WD-40®—which stands for Water Displacement perfected on the 40th try—is still in use today."

WD-40 Company and Product History

 

[marcogumbo]

I had the same problem. I installed the PMR jackshaft (EXCELLENT!)
and incorrectly lubed the clutch bushing with a racing type gear oil. It lasted
maybe a half hour of riding, then siezed up with that noise people are saying, then immediately shut down the motor. I removed the clutch and cleaned off the gear oil and replaced it with good ole 3 in One Oil. It needs to be oiled before each ride, which is a heck of a lot of maintenance, you're right. I made my 8 year old a little tool bag with some 3 in 1 in it, and made a little cut-out in his clutch cover so's he could oil it up. I can post a photo of this if you want, but with the jackshaft installed, the clutch is reversed, so the access to the bushing is different.

 

[breittes]

I have recently been having the same problem. It is the new style DB30 from Northern Tool. My kid rides it down the street and then I hear a harsh grinding noise. Sometimes it will stall, sometimes it won't.

I checked the chain to see if it is too tight or too loose. It has a little over 1/2" of play. I oiled the clutch. Then just let it sit and idle while the oil works it way in and around. After about 2-3 minutes of just sitting there, it made the noise, jumped forward, and stalled.

Oh yeah.. I'm new to the forum.. HI!

Brett

 

[marcogumbo]

I have recently been having the same problem. It is the new style DB30 from Northern Tool. My kid rides it down the street and then I hear a harsh grinding noise. Sometimes it will stall, sometimes it won't.

I checked the chain to see if it is too tight or too loose. It has a little over 1/2" of play. I oiled the clutch. Then just let it sit and idle while the oil works it way in and around. After about 2-3 minutes of just sitting there, it made the noise, jumped forward, and stalled.

Oh yeah.. I'm new to the forum.. HI!

Brett

Hey, Brett....what kind of oil did you use? Penetrating oil is best.

 

[breittes]

I used 3-in-1 oil. But, I am thinking I am needing a thicker more penetrating (like you said) oil.

 

[The Restore Kid]

I used 3-in-1 oil. But, I am thinking I am needing a thicker more penetrating (like you said) oil.

For what now?? penetrating oil is really thin and made to cut.. Like breaking rusty joints between nuts and bolts, or rusted on parts..

3&1 oil actually would not be a bad thing on your clutch bushings.. You want something that will stick around a while and be slippery.. Penetraing oil is thin and will dissapear quicklyy and leave gunk behind.. An electric motor bushing lube works about best, and comes in a little squeeze bottle with long pointer hose to get it where ya need it.. Works good on chains too..