Low Rev, Low $, E85 Clone?

FirePowerMinis

FirePowerMinis

Active Member
#1
#1
Hi! New on the forum, not the planet :) I've searched the site and the Google pretty hard, and have a few questions for the experienced GX/Clone guru's.

I want to build a couple of governed clones, to make lots of power without major revs. Maybe 4k tops. Cheap!

I have a pair of new 212's but will be R&D'ing on a 196 Lifan.

So far, I have a bare 14cc head. I'll do mild porting and a good valve job.

Plans:
Flat-top Honda Piston. I know, no eq for the 70mm, but I'm working on that.
Advance timing per dyno (building one now)
Jetting, obviously
Air filter and adapter
Header. LONG
1.2-3 Yamaha rockers
Advanced cam timing per dyno

I'm having a hard time finding springs that won't bind at .300 range lift, and not be too stiff for stock cam.

On E85, Can I trim the flywheel fins a bit to lessen drag? I'll likely use a thermal barrier coating on piston, chamber and ports, so it should be a chilly bugger.

Am I on the right path?
 
Txpowdercoater

Txpowdercoater

New Member
#2
#2
more power less revs, e-85 = lots of compression and more timing. get the block decked to zero deck height, use a honda flat top piston. dont over cam for low rpm's, 300 cam is to large IMO. small long exhaust pipe to scavenge and make torque
 
G

garredondojr

New Member
#4
#4
i've been collecting parts for a very similar build. i'm using a:

6.5hp clone block/crank, decked to -.015 with glass/sand paper
stock honda rod with a little welding/ reinforcing (yes i'm cheap)
flat top thin ring honda piston with file to fit rings
honda carb drilled out to .625 and epoxied where it went into the pilot jet
gx140 emulsion tube
gx160 headgasket
14cc head, thinking about welding or filling the port floor with epoxy and raising the roof
doing some bowl work but keep port volume same or less than stock on the intake, may also weld cc up and unshroud valves some if more compression is allowed.
1.2-3 stamped rockers
grind base circle of cam to gain lift but try and keep duration close to stock
long 7/8" header
file timing key as needed
drill jets as needed
may need valve springs down the road

been chipping away at it little by little. have everything above minus the 7/8" tubing, rockers, air filter and ring set. possibly valve springs.

already decked the block, dr'd the carb, made a header flange, and air filter adapter. no rush as I still need to buy a comet clutch set for the kart. and I do plan on running e85.

I also have a tilloston 192(I think? from a big stihl chainsaw) carb I may give a try if the honda doesnt work well. but for linkage/governor sake I plan to keep the honda on.
 
texasfabguy

texasfabguy

New Member
#6
#6
garredondojr said:
i've been collecting parts for a very similar build. i'm using a:

6.5hp clone block/crank, decked to -.015 with glass/sand paper
stock honda rod with a little welding/ reinforcing (yes i'm cheap)
flat top thin ring honda piston with file to fit rings
honda carb drilled out to .625 and epoxied where it went into the pilot jet
gx140 emulsion tube
gx160 headgasket
14cc head, thinking about welding or filling the port floor with epoxy and raising the roof
doing some bowl work but keep port volume same or less than stock on the intake, may also weld cc up and unshroud valves some if more compression is allowed.
1.2-3 stamped rockers
grind base circle of cam to gain lift but try and keep duration close to stock
long 7/8" header
file timing key as needed
drill jets as needed
may need valve springs down the road

been chipping away at it little by little. have everything above minus the 7/8" tubing, rockers, air filter and ring set. possibly valve springs.

already decked the block, dr'd the carb, made a header flange, and air filter adapter. no rush as I still need to buy a comet clutch set for the kart. and I do plan on running e85.

I also have a tilloston 192(I think? from a big stihl chainsaw) carb I may give a try if the honda doesnt work well. but for linkage/governor sake I plan to keep the honda on.
Click to expand...
only 60 bucks for a .020 over rod.
 
G

garredondojr

New Member
#7
#7
texasfabguy said:
only 60 bucks for a .020 over rod.
Click to expand...
I agree a cheap wise investment. Just doing it more as a fun how much can I get with little to no money invested. With Christmas around the corner I'm spending no money on these types of toys. Uncle owns a small engine repair shop and I'm a hobbyists fabricator so most items have/will be free. Just time invested. Got all my parts and the two engines for $20 thus far.
 
Newoldstock

Newoldstock

New Member
#8
#8
FirePowerMinis said:
Hi! New on the forum, not the planet :) I've searched the site and the Google pretty hard, and have a few questions for the experienced GX/Clone guru's.

I want to build a couple of governed clones, to make lots of power without major revs. Maybe 4k tops. Cheap!

I have a pair of new 212's but will be R&D'ing on a 196 Lifan.

So far, I have a bare 14cc head. I'll do mild porting and a good valve job.

Plans:
Flat-top Honda Piston. I know, no eq for the 70mm, but I'm working on that.
Advance timing per dyno (building one now)
Jetting, obviously
Air filter and adapter
Header. LONG
1.2-3 Yamaha rockers
Advanced cam timing per dyno

I'm having a hard time finding springs that won't bind at .300 range lift, and not be too stiff for stock cam.

On E85, Can I trim the flywheel fins a bit to lessen drag? I'll likely use a thermal barrier coating on piston, chamber and ports, so it should be a chilly bugger.

Am I on the right path?
Click to expand...
The stock carb is a limiting factor.
I question the value of the rockers when Tim Isky can offer you a Black Mamba Jr.

Piston.....
Well Ken Burris has a nice 71 mm piston and long rod that could be used ( might be a boring issue I would ask him )
Or you could shave the stock piston down with the long rod and deck as required to get the correct bump clearence.

Long header is good.

Porting requires you know something about the flow on the head.
Porting only helps when you are reaching the limits of a engine ability to pull on a carb and scavange the exhaust.
The stock carb is as big a handycap than the factory porting ( but don't think too large is your friend in a torque engine as well ).
Junk the clone valve train and buy good parts there.
 
FirePowerMinis

FirePowerMinis

Active Member
#9
#9
The BM-Jr still has more duration than I want. I saw some 220 degree on NR, with high lift. Still more than $7 rockers, for the low $ part.
Pi$ton is here, Honda .010 over. I'll hone to size and deck for .020 clearance.
Porting, I got covered, along with seat work and decent valves, bike retainers.
I'll bore the carb, and tune for 4000 revs.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top