Manco Delta 1 headset bolt woes

[that_van_guy]

So the Delta 1 chopper I picked up the other day has some serious slop in the headset/fork/steering tube. a 1/2" bolt fits snug in the fork plates, but has play in the tube. It almost seems like it should have a bushing or sleeve between the bolt and the tube, but there isn't one. Did these bikes come with a thin-walled nylon bushing or something in the headset?

I don't have a bore gauge or calipers to get an exact measurement, but with a tape measure the ID of the head tube is definitely larger than 1/2". I can almost get a 9/16" drill bit in there, so I'm thinking it's in the neighborhood of 17/32" ID.

Here you can see the space around a 1/2" bolt. Seems to be concentric, not "egged out".

Same story on the bottom:

I want to ride this bike, so getting the steering right is definitely a priority. Could I use nylon shim stock to make a bushing of sorts? Or does anybody know if 1/2"ODx17/32"ID brass or bronze bushings are available anywhere?

 

[bigrob]

Well there is definitely something missing
Does the hole appear to be round or is it worn oval shape?

If its worn oval you can drill it out to a larger size from the top and bottom to the depth of a new bushing

 

[that_van_guy]

Seems to be round. That's what makes me think I am missing a bushing of some kind. Was considering drilling out to 9/16" at the top and bottom to fit 1/2"IDx9/16"OD bushings. That should work.

 

[bigrob]

Yup , you need to use a bushing of some sort

I have used every thing from actual sintured bronze bushing too plumbing fittings or pipe from home depot lol
You can even bed the bushing in place with Jb weld putty if it is a less than perfect fit

 

[capguncowboy]

CAT bikes don't use a bushing, but the bolt diameter matches the ID of the head tube. Did Manco use a bushing there?

 

[that_van_guy]

It would seem that they did, but I can't get a definite answer. A 1/2" bolt fits perfect in the fork plates, but is sloppy in the neck tube.

Does anyone have a source for 1/2" ID x 9/16" OD bushings? Can't seem to find anything in that size.

 

[capguncowboy]

It would seem that they did, but I can't get a definite answer. A 1/2" bolt fits perfect in the fork plates, but is sloppy in the neck tube.

Does anyone have a source for 1/2" ID x 9/16" OD bushings? Can't seem to find anything in that size.

That would only be a 1/32" thickness on each side of the bushing. You might be able to use a section of 1/2" copper pipe and sleeve the head tube with it, but I'm not sure what the thickness, OD, ID is. It would be worth looking into. I doubt you'll find any bushings with those dimensions off the shelf.

 

[that_van_guy]

The head tube is 3/4" OD and something like 17/32 ID. Could I use shim stock, or would that cause issues with the steering binding up?

 

[that_van_guy]

What about something like this?
Brass C260 Seamless Round Tubing, 17/32" OD, 0.503"ID, 0.014" Wall, 12" Length (Pack of 3): Industrial Metal Tubing: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

 

[KustomKartKid]

What about something like this?
Brass C260 Seamless Round Tubing, 17/32" OD, 0.503"ID, 0.014" Wall, 12" Length (Pack of 3): Industrial Metal Tubing: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

You can probably make something like that work. Drilling that out with a hand drill will not be fun make sure you have the frame secured and a variable speed drill with a support handle. If things start moving around you're going to end up with an oversized hole and the tube will fall in. You will want to "break" the cutting edge on the lips of the drill with an oilstone or ever so lightly on a grinding wheel or belt sander or it's gonna grab. If you're adept at sharpening drills you may even want to lessen the relief angle . You want to shave the material away as you go through... I would start from the bottom side if it's not worn as bad.

 

[that_van_guy]

I may not have to drill it out at all, head tube ID is just about 17/32". Would definitely need to drill to fit 9/16" OD bushing, but will try this first. Ordered a 12" length, worth a shot for $5.

 

[KustomKartKid]

Just looking at the photo I would say you will need 9/16" OD bushing or maybe even 5/8" to correct it. The tube is likely worn in an oval and/or hourglass shape so the bushing may go in partially and then stop unless you drill. A shorter bushing on each end like Rob suggested may be an easier fix.

 

[that_van_guy]

If the seamless tube doesn't work I will probably wind up doing that. Drilling the ends out to 9/16" or 5/8 and installing a pair of short bushings (3/4" long maybe?) with a 1/2" ID. Thanks for the suggestions guys. Will keep you posted.

 

[that_van_guy]

Another piece to the puzzle. Re-hung the front end last night after work for kicks and giggles, and noticed something I hadn't before. Decent gap between the head tube and lower fork plate, like a washer or spacer should be there.

Tried to get a regular 1/2" ID washer in between, but it was too thick. What I will probably wind up doing is drilling out the top and bottom of the head tube to 5/8", about 3/4" deep to accept a pair of bushings. Will use a flanged bushing at the bottom, with the flange taking up the space between the head tube and lower fork plate. May have to grind down the flange or the head tube itself to get everything fitted properly.

 

[lostinbaja]

I'm' watching this thread with particular interest, since my Manco project has the same issues. I have been thinking of cutting the top and bottom of the head tube and TiG welding in a cup on top and bottom that will fit a pressed in bearing or flanged bushings.

 

[markus]

My Delta 1 was bolt only no bushings, like I had said in another post the bolt was frozen into the headtube from sitting when I bought it. Once I got it all apart I actually had to run a drill through the tube to clean it up because it was such a tight fit for a new bolt. My forks were where the slop was at and had to reweld the holes up and redrill them. good luck with it!

 

[that_van_guy]

If I wasn't concerned with originality I'd just cut the factory head tube off and have a 1 /38" ID tube welded on and press bearings into the ends. But I really want to try and make the factory head tube work. Installing flanged bushings will hardly be noticeable unless you look close and knew that's not how they came.

 

[that_van_guy]

My Delta 1 was bolt only no bushings, like I had said in another post the bolt was frozen into the headtube from sitting when I bought it. Once I got it all apart I actually had to run a drill through the tube to clean it up because it was such a tight fit for a new bolt. My forks were where the slop was at and had to reweld the holes up and redrill them. good luck with it!

Huh, mines the opposite. 1/2" bolt fits perfect in the fork plates, but wobbles like crazy in the head tube.

 

[lostinbaja]

My other thought was to cut through one side of the head tube vertically about 1" from each end, close up the end, weld the kerf, finish off the weld, flush the redrill the tube to size. It would be undetectable but tight.

 

[markus]

Huh, mines the opposite. 1/2" bolt fits perfect in the fork plates, but wobbles like crazy in the head tube.

it was due to the bolt rustwelding itself sold to the headtube, frm years of stitting outside in the elements I would imagine, so the bolt never moved but the fork holes did. Its terrible design without bushings or bearings if its left unattended. I can understand why they went that route though, with the angle and rake that bike has, they probably felt a pretty solid 5-6" of steel to steel is probably better than a typical bushing at just the ends.

Got a good hardware or big hobby shop in town? a really good hobby shop usually has a pretty extensive rack of various thin tubing sizes, K&S is usually the supplier, Its been years since I had the hobby shop but there was a wide selection of various types of small tubing in like 6-12" lengths, might be something thin enough on the rack to make a total length solid insert. I know my local hardware store has a K&S rack in the store too, just not as extensive as I had in the Hobby shop.

maybe be able to use something like this as an insert :shrug:
Round Brass Tube 17/32'' (k+s8140) K-S Hobby and Craft Metal Tubing