Synthetic oil

[copenhagen59]

Hey guys,

I was wondering if using 10w 30 Mobile 1 synthetic oil in my built clone would be good.

I've put 3 hours worth of break in time with 10w 30 dino oil and it all seems to run good.

Is there any downside to switching to this synthetic besides cost? It's what AGK recommends on there website.

I just want a good oil that won't risk my engine life.

Thanks,

 

[v6steeda]

After the break in period the synthetic will hold up to higher temps better and overall engine life. Just costs more is the done side, but as you know that you should not break in the engine on Synthetic. If I build a high performance engine then I will switch over, the go karts run at higher rpm then what a your casual mini bike user will do.

 

[PacMule]

Use a racing synthetic 10w30 oil like Valvoline "NOT STREET LEGAL " Avaliable at napa auto. Price is good and it has the right properties in it for flat tappet cams.

 

[copenhagen59]

Would this Mobile 1 10w30 be good to use?

 

[cudaman]

Mobil 1 10W30 is fine, some guys just run plain motor oil which is fine too most of the time. Either way keep it clean, don't over fill it and change it once a season and forget it.

As for synthetics and break-ins...I've used Mobil 1 10W30 synthetic in all 3 of my 6.5's since day one. Many brand new mega-buck high performance cars/engine's ship from the factory with Mobil 1 synthetic....guess they "never break" in. Same with Nascar engines...they never break in............

Yeah I've heard the urban legends/myths that you should not break in new engines using synthetic motor oils and it's just that - a myth. It's okay to break in any engine with synthetic oil. There has been a lot of studies on this subject in recent years.

Brand new Corvettes, all Porches, Vipers, Mercedes Benz along with more vehicles than I care to list all come with Mobil 1 synthetic brand new from the factory so that old theory just doesn't hold up that an engine will never break in or not break in properly using synthetic oils. Honestly, if a motor has less wear and tear and takes a bit longer to break in due to good oil that's a good thing IMO and evidently high end motor builders must feel the same way else they'd ship their cars with crap oil from day one instead. The motor will break in and loosen up no matter whether you run synthetic or not.

 

[Newoldstock]

In 05 when I bought my Jetta I had the same question.

The shop foreman explained to me the main reason thats not an issue is the plateu finnish on the liners and the tight machining as compared to previous engines.

Translation:
Its machined for all intensive purposes as close to perfect as possible so very little time is spent breaking in.

So I think you should do a little reading up on the subject.

Clones are not plateau finnished bores ( not even close ).
Cams are not hardened and machined to a high finnish and journals are polished to the minimum standard.

This means it all has to wear in and lap itself together.

WHat break in means is rappid wear, parts polishing themselves against each other untill they find their happy place.

Synthetics are not going to help you here and may hinder the process.

Now the best thing I think you could do is buy some Lucas break in lube and run the engine under load as modern break in practices sugest.
Change oil often and then make the switch to your sythetic of choice.

If you decide to run the ZM4 piston I am of the opinion you have less time to seat those rings properly no matter what the finnish on the bore so get those engines warm quick and avoid idel. Load the rings within reason ( if possible observing the crank case blow by will tell you if your pushing too hard ).

Some reading info
Plateau Honing 101 - The role of Flex-Hones and Ultra Finish Hones

 

[copenhagen59]

Just changed the oil with some Mobile 1 10w30 synthetic :thumbsup:

 

[turbodaddyfrank]

In 05 when I bought my Jetta I had the same question.

The shop foreman explained to me the main reason thats not an issue is the plateu finnish on the liners and the tight machining as compared to previous engines.

Translation:
Its machined for all intensive purposes as close to perfect as possible so very little time is spent breaking in.

So I think you should do a little reading up on the subject.

Clones are not plateau finnished bores ( not even close ).
Cams are not hardened and machined to a high finnish and journals are polished to the minimum standard.

This means it all has to wear in and lap itself together.

WHat break in means is rappid wear, parts polishing themselves against each other untill they find their happy place.

Synthetics are not going to help you here and may hinder the process.

Now the best thing I think you could do is buy some Lucas break in lube and run the engine under load as modern break in practices sugest.
Change oil often and then make the switch to your sythetic of choice.

If you decide to run the ZM4 piston I am of the opinion you have less time to seat those rings properly no matter what the finnish on the bore so get those engines warm quick and avoid idel. Load the rings within reason ( if possible observing the crank case blow by will tell you if your pushing too hard ).

Some reading info
Plateau Honing 101 - The role of Flex-Hones and Ultra Finish Hones

This is true, however with todays oil technology, u can run synthetic oil from day one, but not just any synthetic oil. U must run "break in" synthetic oil because it was formulated with less friction modifiers in order to let the "break in" process still happen.

As far as break in of the rings, the trick is to not let the engine run at a constant RMP such as idle for a long period of time, but in order to hardface the cam to the lifters, u must start the engine and let it run around 2500 RPM for 10 minutes, then let it cool and do it again and after that the cam and lifters will mate. This time is not long enough for the rings to completly seat, so now run the engine under a load and ride the bike or drive the kart with the intent to accelerate and decelerate for 20 minutes at a time for several times. At this time the rings should seat and then its time to change the oil. Now at this point I change it out with a full synthetic oil and run it. We recommend AMSoil 10-30 in the conventional or race blend RD30.

Do these following steps and u should end up with a long lasting motor that will prove its reliability.

 

[ole4]

Just remember that the new automotive oils are required to reduce the extreme pressure lubricants that used to be in the oil. The moly, Zinc and phosphorus are all at very low levels to reduce catalytic converters wearing out too soon. The new cars use roller cams and do not require that much EP in the lube. On a lawnmower motor however that is not the case. You need a not street leagal oil, or use mobile one motorcycle 4T oil that has the higher amounts of oil. I think Tim Isky has some info on his site and sells brad penn oil that has a lot of ep additives. (ep = extreme pressure lube).

 

[copenhagen59]

I've heard this before but I would like to know your guys opinion.

Does switching to a slick synthetic over a dino oil really make an difference in power and RPM ?

I mean if you think about it, less friction means it can turn easier and you would think you could squeeze just a little more RPM out this way.

But, would you even be able to notice it on a clone anyway lol ?

 

[hal_armour]

Good question, I have used it in my car (after dino oil break in) for ten years, I get a slight improvement in fuel economy. I use QS synth in my clone because I have jugs in my garage and it "feels" like the right thing to do. whether it is noticeable or not I am really not sure.

 

[Mini Motors]

I just can't get over the fact that in all the forums I belong to about gas engines, it always gets down to oil.

Some things that most people don't know about synthetic oil. First, the vast majority of "synthetics" are just slightly modified petro based oils that can legally be called synthetic. A true synthetic oil still costs about $20+ a quart. Second, synthetics don't lubricate any better than petroleum oils, they just do it longer. It's additives like Molybdenum that increase lubrication, and it's these additives that should never be used in breaking in a new motor. A new or newly rebuilt motor needs minimal lubrication if it is to allow any final "honing" or "seating" of the ring and bearing surfaces to occur.

 

[Newoldstock]

There is more too para synthetics than that.

The do offer lower pour points, more stability at high temperature less volitiles, and a host of other advantages over the conventional oils.

But for these engines its the additive package you need to look at.
Realy there are not many oils made specificaly for splash lubed engines.

The jap spec motor bikes oils are probably the best fit followed next by some of the older diesel oils ( very hard to find ) and the expensive kart oils and auto race oils.

But non of this does you any good if you leave them in there to get too dirty.
Run the wrong viscosity.
Run too much or too little oil.

 

[turbodaddyfrank]

I've heard this before but I would like to know your guys opinion.

Does switching to a slick synthetic over a dino oil really make an difference in power and RPM ?

I mean if you think about it, less friction means it can turn easier and you would think you could squeeze just a little more RPM out this way.

But, would you even be able to notice it on a clone anyway lol ?

Yes it makes a big difference. Also, the RD30 that Tim Isky will be carrying next week by AMSoil is a race blend oil and has high levels of zinc and phosphorus this is why we use it. Amsoil also carries a special blend of small engine oil that is not a race blend but works well in small air cooled engines too. If you want any of it, you can PM me or as of next week, get ahold of Tim Isky and he is going to be a distributor for me too. :thumbsup:

IMO Brad Penn is no good, I have seen failures from people who have used that "dino" oil as u put it.