Want your thoughts please.....

Oldsalt

Well-Known Member
#5
I read what the guy had to say on his site. There's only one line that gives any useful information that could be used to determine if you wish to buy this guys plans. That line says: ...."does not require that you flip the engine on its side". But the line that tells me this guy is pure hype and nothing more is the caption under picture of a kart with a roll cage. The caption is: Gamblighini Phi Alpha 10!!!! Probably a concoction of Gambler [a well known race car chassis builder] and Lamborgini. I had to laugh. I'm not even going to comment on the Phi Alpha part. Another funny pronouncement was the name of the "book". "Go Kart Building 202". No S***, not 101 but 202!! Don't waste your money with this guy. He's not going to give you anything you don't already know. Plus it would not be reasonably adaptable to a mini bike. There generally isn't room to do it useing any power transmission device, be it bevel gears, belts, hydraulics, or whatever.
 
#6
Good advice and I am taking it an run. I am not going to throw my money out the window to this BS.............. Funny how I almost got sucked in!!!!!!!
 

Oldsalt

Well-Known Member
#7
You think??? States that it is done under $50.
Two shafts carrying sheaves [pulleys], set at 90 degree to each other, but on the same "plane", can [sometimes] be coupled by use of a belt. That's no secret. That's very likely what he's [not] talking about. He refuses to give ANY particulares because if he did very few would take the bait and be reeled in. However, if cheap sheaves and belt were purchased it would come to less that $50. He has that much right.
 
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#8
He cant be using a right angle "90 Degree" drive, you would be hard pressed to get a good one for less then $200.00. I bet that he is running pully's like Oldsalt discribed, like on a old Corvair. It can be done that way, but how reliable would that be.

Dobber
 
#9
He is a nice guy....

Hey guys.....This guy is straight up. Very nice and just trying to help some people understand how it can be done. I emailed him and he responded. Definitely not a creep. :thumbsup:
 
#10
He wants you to buy the bool that is for sure ,,it would be interesting to read it though as you never know ,, My thoughts were more on using the transaxle or transmission to convert from vertical to horizonal ,, whatever ,, did not see the price of the book either ??
 

Oldsalt

Well-Known Member
#12
$ 9.99 for the vertical shaft info. I am still thinking about getting them.
You're probably right. $9.99 is really chump change. My problem is that I worked for more than 30 years, as an engineer, with power transmission devices of about every sort. 'Spose I developed an adversion to folks "talking through their hat" regarding such matters. However, I am as interested as anyone to find out what he has to offer; It'll be enlightening or humerous. But I'm still betting it won't be really useful for mini bikes.
 
#14
Being an engineer of sorts makes you look at things different and outside the box and the thoughts run through your mind looking for a value.
I once wanted to make a fluid clutch for a go kart that had fluid inside a round take apart shell and by putting different paddles inside the revolving internal hub the more or less the transfer loss would be and the load would eventually catch up and your ratio would be more efficient. Speed Queen used a system like this on their commercial washing machines in the spin cycle the clutch would take the load and allow slippage until the weight of the spinning basket of clothes caught up with the clutch. This fluid inside could also be of different viscosities and could be a factor. I never persued this project but it is still stuck in my brain but it's value is less today.
So when you think outside the box it sometimes is a good exercise for the brain, and a view from a side we have not seen can be shown.
Not saying it is a good value but we all have a curious nature.
Steve :scooter:
 
#15
why pay $10 for something someone like myself could tell you for free? i already have plans for a vertical shaft minibike, and/or go-kart all you need to have is a 90 degree gearbox which can be found on some larger lawn tractor's mowing decks, i have a set of 2 myself. you can also find them once in a while on craigslist for real cheap. i can tell you now that twisting a belt form vertical to horizontal will NOT work. it might work for a couple minutes, but you will be going through belts like nothing.
you CAN use a transmission or transaxle from a lawnmower, but not without proper preperation, you can find out how to do that on this site under the Driveline section: Mowbetter: Lawnmower Racing Forum
then you should be able to run a clutch with belts, and it should work fine!
 
#16
Hello Austin...

how hard can you run those gear boxes you speak of. What kind of speed are we talking about. Do you have a picture of one?

Thanks.....Vince
 
#17
I have to agree with Oldsalt.You can turn a belt from vertical to horizontal using two pulleys, but the alignment is critical. If you use kevlar belts, it will work better. Corvairs did it with idlers, as did Wheelhorse. It can be done without idlers, but the pulleys need to be on the same plane, and nearly perfect alignment is a must.
 

Oldsalt

Well-Known Member
#19
I still am going to play the naysayer. Heres some more on the subject:

1. Karts and Racing Lawnmowers are really a different proposition than a mini. There's a whale of a lot more room on them devices than a little mini frame. If the original pulley on the output shaft of the vertical engine is not below the bottom frame rails of a mini the engine will be rather high. If one gets very lucky and acquires a rightangle gearbox the heigth of the engine will still be rather high. Sure, as an old engineer said many years ago, "You can power a watch with a diesel engine, but that will likely limit it's mobility". Should we be worried about the center of gravity getting too high?

2. The website touted the fact that you can find lots of high horsepower vertical engines for short money. Looked at a 7 HP vertical motor today. The pitch diameter of the drive pulley appeared to be more than 5 inches. What's the plan to get the rear wheel RPM down to a useable level without a bulky device of some sort? We know that an 11 tooth sprocket [on a clutch] driving a 60 tooth rear wheel sprocket is the minimum reduction necessary to make the mini rideable [assumeing an 8 or 10 inch diameter tire]. That's approx 5.5 to 1 reduction. Again, I'm sure it can be done. Mentioned bevel gears in my 11/15 post. Be ready to build a purpose built gear box. Don't hope to find a ready made double ended gearbox small enough, rugged enough, and otherwise useable to fall in your lap. Here again we have a room problem. It would seem to me that not only would the ground clearance be impared, but also the bikes length would have to be increased.

3. Those big, wonderful, cheap, but under utilized vertical shaft engines also have a width problem when it comes to putting them in a mini.

4. Are you willing to keep the electric starter? How you gonna easily start it with a rope while sitting on the min bike? Tell ya what: Stand beside your mini bike an hold onto the throttle with one hand. Open it enough so that it will start and run. Then reach down with your other hand and yank the starter rope. Ever done that? You won't do it a second time without first putting the front wheel against the house. I have a three engine mini bike that requires an electric starter to light 'em up. Are you willing to carry a battery on your mini?

I'll be happy to be wrong regarding the desireability of big vertical shaft engines in old school mini bikes. Again...Yes it can be done, but it would be at best a conversation piece. Still seems to me that if you can't [or won't] turn the engine 90 degrees it's silly to comsider.
 
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