Will not idle down

#1
I have a Bird "nighthawk" with the Original Tecumseh, I think is an HS40 but it does not have any model numbers so I am not positive.
Here is my problem: I can start it really easy, but it will only run really fast. I cannot get it to slowly idle. I rebuilt the carb and that went well and nothing looked abnormal there. I do not have the throttle hooked up at all and I think the I have the governer hooked up correctly but I am sure the governer is not holding the throttle open. If I adjust the main jet it does respond, but I can't get it to idle down enough to even mess with the secondary jet, or low speed or whatever you want to call it. Will someone please advise me on the steps I should take. I do have a complete shop manual but the engine is not responding as expected.
 

DMR

New Member
#2
I have a Bird "nighthawk" with the Original Tecumseh, I think is an HS40 but it does not have any model numbers so I am not positive.
Here is my problem: I can start it really easy, but it will only run really fast. I cannot get it to slowly idle. I rebuilt the carb and that went well and nothing looked abnormal there. I do not have the throttle hooked up at all and I think the I have the governer hooked up correctly but I am sure the governer is not holding the throttle open. If I adjust the main jet it does respond, but I can't get it to idle down enough to even mess with the secondary jet, or low speed or whatever you want to call it. Will someone please advise me on the steps I should take. I do have a complete shop manual but the engine is not responding as expected.
This may sound obvious but try lowering the idle screw/adjustment. if that doesnt work you may have a leak somewhere, probably in the carb gasket, take off the carb, throw some high-temp rtv silicone on the gasket to seal it up and stick the carb back on there, give it about 2-3 hours to dry and see if that helps, if that doesnt help there may be something preventing the butterfly from closing all the way, but I highly doubt it being that you rebuilt the carb. Let us know how it goes.:thumbsup:
 
#4
thats good advice, but TWO OTHER things to look for would be,

#1 the governor arm will not pull back all the way, or the rod connecting the carb to governor arm is not hooked up correctly in the right holes.. (OR BEEN MODIFIED and too short) There is a small 1/4 hex screw in the base of the governor arm that you can loosen and rotate the arm around to adjust where it is located.. I've noticed when they are right, the arm actually tips out towards the crankshaft side of the motor, probably 10 to 15 degrees off from strait from the small square base the governor arm attaches to..

#2 and probably even MORE likely.... is your butterfly is not attached to the throttle shaft correctly.... There is a timing mark on the butterfly.. That mark should be dead nuts perfectly true with the rod... The butterfly is oblonged to fill the round hole as it sets at an angle closed off... THEN the butterfly has to be bolted to the shaft SIDE TO SIDE correctly too.. A lot of the times the screw is off centered in the hole one side or the other to make it all close up right.....

You SHOULD be able to pull the throttle to CLOSED and have the carburetor shut COMPLETELY OFF.... NO!!!! NONE NOT ANY!!! air or day light coming past the butterfly when it shut completely off..

If it's out of round, off centered, worn out... It will create an air leak and not seal.. Best way I've found to get one right is make sure your timing mark is dead nuts true and barely SNUG The screw down.. hardly at all.. JUST enough to hold the throttle shaft and butterfly as one piece.... Then close the throttle with the idle screw completely OUT off the carb.... If it will not close off COMPLETELY!!! what I will do is turn it wide open then turn it wide SHUT again with a little bit of force... not a LOT enough to BREAK OR BEND anything... but a little gentle force... Just repeat that process a couple dozen times real quick... :wink: Eventually that butterly slamming shut in the round hole... will align the butterfly WITH the hole... and it should close off completely sealed off.... :thumbsup:

SO theres those two things to look for as well... ALSO the carb may just be worn out at the throttle shaft and is leaking air there too...

I would say do like DMR said and check for air leaks at all of the gaskets first, turn the idle screw down as far as it will go until it stops even MAKING contact with the throttle plate... If all that fails, take the carb off, check to make sure the butterfly will close off completely, the put the carb back on WITHOUT the governor setup atached... THAT WAY you know it is YOU VERSES THE CARB.. :hammer: and NO governor or throttle parts interfering... If the carb is all alone bolted to engine with the idle adjustment screw completely removed from the carb and it STILL refuses to idle down....You have an air leak somewhere....

Get us some pictures of your setup... :wink:
 
#6
High Idle

I have a basic question:
1. If I get the carb adjusted right, should I ever be able to turn the Choke completely off and it run normally? (The closest I have ever got the choke was not completely opened.)
 
#7
High Idle

#1 the governor arm will not pull back all the way, or the rod connecting the carb to governor arm is not hooked up correctly in the right holes.. (OR BEEN MODIFIED and too short) There is a small 1/4 hex screw in the base of the governor arm that you can loosen and rotate the arm around to adjust where it is located.. I've noticed when they are right, the arm actually tips out towards the crankshaft side of the motor, probably 10 to 15 degrees off from strait from the small square base the governor arm attaches to..
( I think I had this correct, but I disconnected-and removed the governer arm completely for this exercise to isolate problems.)

#2 and probably even MORE likely.... is your butterfly is not attached to the throttle shaft correctly.... There is a timing mark on the butterfly.. That mark should be dead nuts perfectly true with the rod... The butterfly is oblonged to fill the round hole as it sets at an angle closed off... THEN the butterfly has to be bolted to the shaft SIDE TO SIDE correctly too.. A lot of the times the screw is off centered in the hole one side or the other to make it all close up right.....

You SHOULD be able to pull the throttle to CLOSED and have the carburetor shut COMPLETELY OFF.... NO!!!! NONE NOT ANY!!! air or day light coming past the butterfly when it shut completely off..

If it's out of round, off centered, worn out... It will create an air leak and not seal.. Best way I've found to get one right is make sure your timing mark is dead nuts true and barely SNUG The screw down.. hardly at all.. JUST enough to hold the throttle shaft and butterfly as one piece.... Then close the throttle with the idle screw completely OUT off the carb.... If it will not close off COMPLETELY!!! what I will do is turn it wide open then turn it wide SHUT again with a little bit of force... not a LOT enough to BREAK OR BEND anything... but a little gentle force... Just repeat that process a couple dozen times real quick... Eventually that butterly slamming shut in the round hole... will align the butterfly WITH the hole... and it should close off completely sealed off....
(I did not double check this, yet, because:
1.I did not disassemble the throttle shaft/butterfly when I rebuilt the carb.
2.After I had everything put to gether I did not want to have to take everything apart completely.(this thang is all custom built and cramped in)
3.I fiddled with the carb alot rebuilding it and I think it is closing off completely.


SO theres those two things to look for as well... ALSO the carb may just be worn out at the throttle shaft and is leaking air there too...

I would say do like DMR said and check for air leaks at all of the gaskets first, turn the idle screw down as far as it will go until it stops even MAKING contact with the throttle plate... If all that fails, take the carb off, check to make sure the butterfly will close off completely, the put the carb back on WITHOUT the governor setup atached... THAT WAY you know it is YOU VERSES THE CARB.. and NO governor or throttle parts interfering... If the carb is all alone bolted to engine with the idle adjustment screw completely removed from the carb and it STILL refuses to idle down....You have an air leak somewhere....

Get us some pictures of your setup...
 
#8
High Idle

I just had a random thought. What would happen if a check ball inside the carb was stuck?? I did not shake the carb to see if I heard one when I rebuild it.
 
#9
Someone chopped one of those carbs open earlier this year just to see for sure JUST WHAT IS making noise in there... Turns out theres no check ball, it's a little tube that determines amount of fuel flow in the idle jet passages..

I've had several carbs that won't rattle but run great, then carbs that rattle and won't idle for crap... :doah: Yeah, the crab should run with the choke completely open..
 
#10
High Idle

Thanks for being patient with me. This is my first time messin with a tecumseh and I don't know any tricks or quirks. I am going to disassemble and start over from square one to double check everything. If I ever get this right then I will have to hookup/setup the throttle and governer. I am not ready to mess with that yet though.
 
#12
Uhhhh if you use the search this forum link, search for adjusting and setting up Tecumseh carbs, or Tecumseh carb, or something.. Theres a lot of info on the forum about them.. I know I've explained them a few times... Get us a pic of your setup and we should be able to point out any yes or no's in the system.. :wink:
 
#14
working now

I finally got it going, idleing and rode it.
I had to:
1. Boil out the carb.
2. Remove the float needle from the rebuild kit and reinstall the original one I took out.
3. Replace and RTV all of the gaskets.
4. Repair the float(Not replace because the only brass float I have never fixed is one I stepped on).
5. Gave up on trying to figure out how the throttle and governer are "supposed" to be hooked up and just did it my own way where it would work.(I don't know if it is governing or not?)
 
#15
Uhhhh if you use the search this forum link, search for adjusting and setting up Tecumseh carbs, or Tecumseh carb, or something.. Theres a lot of info on the forum about them.. I know I've explained them a few times... Get us a pic of your setup and we should be able to point out any yes or no's in the system.. :wink:


Well I think I might have to remove mine and clean it out although it seems clean. Here are some pix I hope it helps.
 
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