2 Stroke vs. 4 Stroke

#1
I'm rebuilding an A.P.E. Dunecycle, and really like the Briggs 9 hp Vanguard. It's a 4 stroke engine, and I was wondering what the advantages/disadvantages between 4 stroke and two stroke might be. This is my first real rebuild, and I want to make sure I don't make any stupid mistakes. Thanks for the help.
 
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#2
Pros and cons

Four–strokes have a long list of positives. They run more quietly and smoothly than two–stroke engines, particularly at idle speeds, making them the ideal choice for trolling. They are more fuel efficient–generally by at least a third, even more at idle speeds. They offer an extended range and produce almost no smoke. They are also extremely reliable. What all of this means is that operating costs are lower than for two–strokes and downtime and environmental impact are minimized. Additionally, unlike their two–stroke brothers, they can be used on any body of water.

That's not to say the four–strokes don't have their share of negatives. The more complicated construction means your initial outlay is higher, though much of the difference can be recouped over time because fuel costs are lower. Four–strokes are heavier, they're hard to transport, there are more parts to malfunction and repairs tend to be costlier. Other considerations are that crankcase oil and filters must be changed on a regular basis, there are not as many mechanics trained and certified in four–stroke repair, and–a potential deal–breaker–the largest available four–stroke is about 130 horsepower. If you need more than that, you'll have to opt for dual engines (if your boat can accommodate them), and shell out double the cash.

Two–strokes have their own merits. Simpler construction has the sparkplug firing once every revolution, vice twice, and eliminating valves, which in turn lowers both weight (particularly significant in smaller boats) and cost. It also adds power (speed and acceleration) and is easier to repair–a rather significant list of pluses. There are fewer things that can go wrong with the two–stroke, but when something does malfunction, there's a ready supply of parts and knowledgeable mechanics to fix the problem. You won't have to change the crankcase oil and filter as often, either. Finally, the newer–two stroke engines are getting cleaner and more fuel efficient, and some now come with direct fuel injection, eliminating the need to premix oil and gas.

Nevertheless, two–strokes are noisier, smokier and less fuel efficient–all significant environmental issues–and idling is rougher. If you purchase a no–oil injection model, you still have to mix gas and oil yourself. Operating costs are higher, effective range is reduced, the motor can be harder to start, spark plug fouling can be a problem and the carburetors have a tendency to gum up if they're not used frequently enough.

Clearly there are many considerations when making your choice. For now, price could well be the ultimate determinant. In the future, however, as prices for the four–stroke continue to drop and a wider range of horsepower becomes available, the two–stroke may become a less attractive alternative.
 

cxbra

New Member
#3
In my opinion, 4-strokes are better for low-performance use (towing, recreational..) and a TON quieter than 2 strokes. 2 Strokes are better for twisting the throttle full out and holding on for dear life. They also do a good job at pollution and getting the cops called. I was a DIE HARD 2-stroke fan until I realized that 4-strokes dont need as much attention as I thought and that I can ride a lot of places in "stealth" compared to a 2-stroke.

All this said though, my love for 2 strokes cant be beat. I would take a 125cc 2 stroke over a 250cc 4 stroke anyday, but today im happy w/ my flathead 4 stroke.
 
#4
Thanks for the pointers guys. I'm putting this on a small trike, basically like a go kart, so I won't be bringing to close to water (hopefully). I suppose I'm still leaning towards 4 stroke then. I don't mind checking it a little more often, and I definitely like the quieter engine. My old go kart was waaaay too loud.(even with different mufflers)
 

MikeBear

Active Member
#5
My son used to have a APE Dunecycle. We replaced the original engine with a 5.5HP 4 stroke Enduro engine from Northern Tool. That thing ran about 45 mph easy, and that was with my 185 lbs on it.

Believe me, that's as fast as you want to go on one of those, because you are so close to the ground. Make DEAD SURE that you have your brakes hooked up, and that they WORK! Also make sure, that you wire up a kill switch. These Dunecycles have been known to run wild, and if you don't have a kill switch....

I didn't have one on the handlebars where it could be reached the first time I fired it up with the new engine. The brakes weren't working right either. The throttle stuck, and that bike ran flat out with my sons friend on it, out of control for 20 minutes! It had a full tank of gas, and could have gone for a very long time. Until I had him finally pile it into a large leaf/compost pile, which stalled it out. Good thing he didn't try to bail out (I had to stop him, and it would almost be impossible to do a bailout in one of these in the first place), and he was able to keep it in the neighborhood without crashing it, or a car hitting him, etc.
 
#6
That's nuts! Ya, I definitely don't want that to happen. I had the same issue with a go-kart when I was little. It took off, I was still on, then crashed doing about 50 and I got pretty messed up :no:. I always check the brakes and throttle after that! I said in a previous post that I was probably leaning towards a 4 stroke, but I think I'm liking the acceleration of the 2 stroke. After talking to the pros in the forum and around my area, I don't really see why I'd pay so much for a 4 stroke, when the 2 will do just fine. A 2 stroke with an alternator seems a lot cheaper, and it'll let me crack the throttle occasionally :thumbsup:. I still need to buy the torque converter and jack shaft! Now I just need to make sure I order every...single...part...correctly...oh god.

P.S. Since I'd have to mix my oil by hand with the 2 stroke, will I suffer any noticeable loss of torque? I've been led to believe the 2 strokes are quicker off the line, but I could be mistaken.
 
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65ShelbyClone

Well-Known Member
#8
In my opinion, 4-strokes are NOT quieter than 2-strokes. 4-strokes generate more booming low-frequency sound than smokers do and those low-frequency sounds carry over longer distances. That said, both can be muffled down to comparable noise levels if you're willing to sacrifice the performance.
 
#9
I'm rebuilding an A.P.E. Dunecycle, and really like the Briggs 9 hp Vanguard. It's a 4 stroke engine, and I was wondering what the advantages/disadvantages between 4 stroke and two stroke might be. This is my first real rebuild, and I want to make sure I don't make any stupid mistakes. Thanks for the help.
Which 2-stroke engine did you have in mind?
 
#11
You need to look for 2 strokes. I was looking at huge 110cc chain saw the other day. Brand new clone of a Stihl.

They make gobs of torque and rev like mad.

However current emmisions stadards dont; allow for 2 strokes over 49cc. You see bigger ones but techbnicaly they are against the EPA rules.

Best part though there are no restrictions on selling racing engines.
 

cxbra

New Member
#12
I would like to argue that 4 strokes are "quieter" than 2 strokes for a fact! Sure, the db rating might be exactly the same, but to the human ear the higher of the pitches is a lot more sharp in the mind. You hear the loud booming bass of a 450r and after a while it can boom you to sleep.. like a melodic tone. A 2 stroke at the same db level will definately appear to sound louder to the ear because of the pitch that's used to make that db level is much higher than the pitch used to get the db of the 4 stroke, on paper it should be the same but in reality I think not!
 
#13
The 4 strokes have fast become the dominating force on any track or terrain.2 strokes are becoming less popular because a Crf450x well smoke a kx250 and the dam EPA's pollution standers.
Jest buy a old 2 stroke dirt bike and steal the motor for you dune cycle that's what i did for my go kart it has a yz250 motor on it and it does 70mph and has the best acceleration ever
 

65ShelbyClone

Well-Known Member
#14
I would like to argue that 4 strokes are "quieter" than 2 strokes for a fact! Sure, the db rating might be exactly the same, but to the human ear the higher of the pitches is a lot more sharp in the mind. You hear the loud booming bass of a 450r and after a while it can boom you to sleep.. like a melodic tone. A 2 stroke at the same db level will definately appear to sound louder to the ear because of the pitch that's used to make that db level is much higher than the pitch used to get the db of the 4 stroke, on paper it should be the same but in reality I think not!
All of that is personal opinion, not fact. None of it counters what I said, either. :confused:
 
#17
in snowmobiles, almost all they run are 2-strokes, oil injected ones, they arent that loud, i rode an F7 and a Ski-Doo MXZ 550 fan all year, and now i have a 500SS, and they are pretty quiet and run clean,

plus, 4-strokes are heavy.... and more parts to break,
 
#18
I would like to argue that 4 strokes are "quieter" than 2 strokes for a fact! Sure, the db rating might be exactly the same, but to the human ear the higher of the pitches is a lot more sharp in the mind. You hear the loud booming bass of a 450r and after a while it can boom you to sleep.. like a melodic tone. A 2 stroke at the same db level will definately appear to sound louder to the ear because of the pitch that's used to make that db level is much higher than the pitch used to get the db of the 4 stroke, on paper it should be the same but in reality I think not!
One reason I don't travel to supercross races anymore (and I've been to a lot of 'em) is because of the noise. A gate full of 450s is deafening compared to an equal number of 250 2-strokes. It's just painful.
 
#19
Goin' with 2 stroke. The engine I'm getting ready to buy is a Briggs Horizontal Engine 13.5 TP ES 202337-0197. $495.00 New. Probably ordering tomorrow.

1" straight shaft x 2-29/32" length

1/4 keyway

Cast Iron Sleeves

12 Volt Electric Start

10 Amp Alternator

4 Quart Fuel Tank

Lo-Tone Muffler

I think it'll do well, and the price is great.
 
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