Centrifugal clutch or torque converter?

[OrangeAnimal]

I bought a very nice mini trike frame and everything to get it rolling I have a 212 predator engine going on it. I have the choice to use what I have which is the centrifugal clutch or I can buy a torque converter setup? Which is ultimately better? And there are so many TAV2 clones out there it’s hard to pick one any favorites out there? It seems as though the general thing that most people complain about is eating up belts. But that seems like a setup issue to me. I could be wrong.

 

[Harquebus]

Torq-A-Verters are good if set up properly and if you use quality belts. Many are adamant that you use genuine Comet belts. TAVs are mainly meant for off road vehicles, hill climbing and for maximum versatility (different gear ratios).

That looks like a drift trike for pavement. A centrifugal clutch would excel in that environment and provide the most power. Most race karts (all?) use a clutch for maximum speed while conversely, a TAV, while it provides low down grunt, also robs some power. Just depends on what you want.

 

[sparkwizard]

What do you plan to do with it? What did the manufacturer recommend?

 

[OrangeAnimal]

The guy that built it builds dragsters and stuff, he had a torque converter on it.
As far as my usage goes it’ll be mostly off the pavement. I wouldn’t mind it having enough power to spin the tires in the hard dirt and grass. And maybe some wheelies on pavement and a few runs down the street and back. Not looking to break land speed records just play around on. If it’ll run 30 that’ll be enough. They are dirt track kart tires so… I have the centrifugal clutch and I have a torque converter on the way. I might try both.

 

[sparkwizard]

Sounds like converter is your best bet. Clutches don't really like stop and go in the grass. Torque converter will wheelie that thing very nicely.

 

[Cuda54]

The clutch you have will wheelie that with ease. I have a 212 Hemi on a mini bike and grown ups find it easy to wheelie. My son has 2 beefed up 212s that are around 17hp to 18hp they do close to 65mph. One has a clutch the other has a torque converter they both are real close.

 

[OrangeAnimal]

Well I am working on getting everything put together now. Of course they did me no favors with the mounting bolts for the tav. They are correct pitch but the lengths are off just a bit on each one. Of course I had to modify the second oil fill port screw in. The knob had to go. Also the heat shield screw on the head was keeping it from sitting flush so I just removed it. I may go back and make the screw head a bit flatter. Otherwise the kit looks decent just as much as any other kit on the market.

I do have two questions.
1. Bolt torque for pto bolts.
2. Bolt torque for crank shaft bolt.
I do not want to be that guy with pieces of clutch stuck in my leg. I am running the governor still and have no reason to remove it. So ultimately whatever rpm it’ll turn I assume something like 3600-4200 would be fine. I have a good idea that it will be plenty fast.

I am expecting a top speed with the torque converter of about 35mph I may be off though. I have a 12 tooth and a 58 tooth set of sprockets. Take off should be excellent.

 

[sparkwizard]

Aren't you the guy who was asking about how to tame the Predator on the ARCO? This is going to be seriously front end light, my friend. And with a solid axle and kart tires, it won't want to turn, either. Be careful and buy gauze.

 

[OrangeAnimal]

The ARCO is way lighter and the engine was much further back on it. This was built pretty decent and I have a set of wheelie bars lol. You sit more forward of the axle and the engine is even more forward. I think the cg will be better.

I am going to scale it and see the weight distribution at some point as well.

 

[sparkwizard]

Thick, long sleeves and elbow pads.

 

[OrangeAnimal]

I think I can handle it. I will feel it out. I am used to riding 3 wheelers. Gotta Honda 200es big red in the garage right next to the trike.

 

[OrangeAnimal]

Got it all done. Haven’t rode it yet. May finish the wheelie bar setup first. They had it set for pavement so it would drag and dig in hills through the grass. I am going to adjust it up some and get some better bigger wheels for it. Thinking large skateboard wheels. And enough that I can get the front about 30 degrees up. Not too crazy I want to keep things under some control.

 

[enginecrzy]

I have a manual clutch from 3D Motorsports for my Ruttman, "Havent tried it yet" It needs a lever lock for the engine to idle tho... or a 2 speed w a nutural

 

[SAS289]

Well I am working on getting everything put together now. Of course they did me no favors with the mounting bolts for the tav. They are correct pitch but the lengths are off just a bit on each one. Of course I had to modify the second oil fill port screw in. The knob had to go. Also the heat shield screw on the head was keeping it from sitting flush so I just removed it. I may go back and make the screw head a bit flatter. Otherwise the kit looks decent just as much as any other kit on the market.

I do have two questions.
1. Bolt torque for pto bolts.
2. Bolt torque for crank shaft bolt.
I do not want to be that guy with pieces of clutch stuck in my leg. I am running the governor still and have no reason to remove it. So ultimately whatever rpm it’ll turn I assume something like 3600-4200 would be fine. I have a good idea that it will be plenty fast.

I am expecting a top speed with the torque converter of about 35mph I may be off though. I have a 12 tooth and a 58 tooth set of sprockets. Take off should be excellent.

For the TAV plate mounting bolts I just tighten by hand but they are probably somewhere around 17 ft/lbs. For the crankshaft bolt I go for the longest bolt that does not bottom out when torqued down. For my crankshafts it a 2 1/2" bolt with a flat and a lock washer. I use blue loctite and torque to 20 ft/lbs which is a spec I have seen in a Comet doc. And it does make sense for a bolt that size with fine threads.

That's a good catch on the "heat sheild" bolt head. I'd bet that most guys just tighten it down and bind it up. I get stupid with it and just hit that area of the plate with the bench grinder.

 

[OrangeAnimal]

Almost done it’s super fun to ride! Just need to get the wheelie bars situated.

 

[OrangeAnimal]

Got a question for folks familiar with trikes like this.
Pulls to the right under harder throttle. Very squirrelly at speeds of 20 or more. I think the tire pressure has a lot to do with it but I have no idea where to start with them other than to make sure they are equal left to right. It would seem possibly that the way the weight is situated on the trike could cause the pull but there should be some sort of work around for it or how else could people be doing 40+mph on these things!

 

[sparkwizard]

I would get an ACCURATE pressure gauge and a notebook. Do something like 30 right, 35 left. Take it for a ride. Write down your impression. Add 5 psi to the tire that it pulls toward. With a solid axel, tire circumference is critical on hard surfaces.
Plan B would be to make sure they have the EXACT same pressure, take it for a ride. Record your experience in the book. Swap sides and try it again.
Plan C would be to just give up and sell it to me, cheap. I really like it a lot.

 

[Thepaetsguy]

Got a question for folks familiar with trikes like this.
Pulls to the right under harder throttle. Very squirrelly at speeds of 20 or more. I think the tire pressure has a lot to do with it but I have no idea where to start with them other than to make sure they are equal left to right. It would seem possibly that the way the weight is situated on the trike could cause the pull but there should be some sort of work around for it or how else could people be doing 40+mph on these things!

I know zero actual truth about how they should be built. I started welding scrap together and it turned into A 40+ mph trike. Your bars look near straight up and down. I don’t actually know if thats ok or not I just added a ton of angle to mine so it would sit a bit comfier. Next would be are your bars lined up to the tire. You could be holding the wheel straight thinking all is good but the tire is just offset to the right a smidge. Edit: Just looking at the pictures your trike looks half the size of mine. It very well may be such a short wheelbase stubby frame it could have an inherent jitter

 

[ole4]

I have no experience with trikes but can you turn around the forks? You have the wheel forward of the forks reducing trail and stability. If you remove the forks and turn them 180 re install and remount the handlebars you have added a couple of inches of trail and make it more stable.

 

[OrangeAnimal]

The forks have the tire in front of them. There isn’t a lot of rake but compared to other things I have it doesn’t seem to out of line for the spec.

it is short the wheelbase from front axle to rear axle is 3ft 4in.

as far as selling it I might. It would be cheaper than most you see for sale. I don’t build them to make a bunch of money. If I get what I got in it I will be happy. Right now I have about 1500 in it or so.

But I want to actually finish it up. Still doing the wheelie bars just got the wheels for them yesterday. Going to add another set of mounting tabs so you can have drag race mode (close to the ground) and the off pavement mode about 2 inches above the rear axle.