Flat Heads
I feel there are enough units around, and plenty of repair parts to keep the "Flat Heads" going for quite some time. The engines we are building are not being abused the way they were in regular service. I see no reason our grand kids could not be running some of these units many years from now.
DAN
I feel there are enough units around, and plenty of repair parts to keep the "Flat Heads" going for quite some time. The engines we are building are not being abused the way they were in regular service. I see no reason our grand kids could not be running some of these units many years from now.
DAN
i love flatheads way more than ohv:thumbsup:, but sadly to say the flathead wont last to many years 10 to 15 at the most. ohv engines are more efficient and have less emmisions than flatheads and make more power, there is no need for a engine to spin the rpms a flathead spins anymore they just need hp and reliability that at which flatheads lack compared to the ohv engines of today, last the ohv engines are going nowhere but up in power, reliability, and durability and more people are using them while flatheads are only used by flathead lovers or people who want a classic engine
Not trying to be negative but I don't see any flat heads anywhere in the real world.
I have some in my engine collection mostly old iron but something like the 13 cube Briggs had a short life to begin with and they wear out and get tossed out. Sure there are some IC series out there soldiering on but they are getting long in the tooth and its just stupid to rebuild them compared to buying a clone. And sadly the clones run better and start better.
I will miss the flat head but I won't be troubled by it.
Would I love to see new ones?
Sure but make it something interesting like Villiers, JAP or BSA or a realy good engine like a Lauson. Hell I would even like to buy a new Letter series Briggs or Iron block Kohler. Something eye popping but we don't need anymore bushed cool bore 13 cube Briggs
I have some in my engine collection mostly old iron but something like the 13 cube Briggs had a short life to begin with and they wear out and get tossed out. Sure there are some IC series out there soldiering on but they are getting long in the tooth and its just stupid to rebuild them compared to buying a clone. And sadly the clones run better and start better.
I will miss the flat head but I won't be troubled by it.
Would I love to see new ones?
Sure but make it something interesting like Villiers, JAP or BSA or a realy good engine like a Lauson. Hell I would even like to buy a new Letter series Briggs or Iron block Kohler. Something eye popping but we don't need anymore bushed cool bore 13 cube Briggs
I have seven that run great, I buy every one I can within reason! Mostly off edgers and reel mowers 3hp and up! I love them and will continue to buy them, I found a disabled guy who loves to rebuild them and does it from his home. He's super cool and I give him all the edger and mower bodies so he can repower and sell them! I own clones and other ohv engines but the flatties are my favorite!:thumbsup:
flatheads are a thing of pass(dinosaur)but they are still cool to have:thumbsup: market for them to me is still strong. i think we are talking mostly about tecumseh's being harder to find parts? they made so many of them that there should be a good aftermarket parts for them for awhile. for example still can find parts for a clinton or reo engine and tecumseh probable 10x bigger. briggs made most of there stuff easy to fix with the carb on top of the tank set up's. no real parts to where out. just diaphram and gaskets to replace.
still seeing new carbs and new rupp style intakes:shrug:someone making it.
magtag engines and hit and miss engines are still a dime a dozen where i live
still seeing new carbs and new rupp style intakes:shrug:someone making it.
magtag engines and hit and miss engines are still a dime a dozen where i live
Looks to me that there will always be flat head engines and parts as long as there is a market. If there is money to be made someone will be making it.
I suppose there had to be a lot of conjecture in the early 1920s when smaller, lighter, more efficient flathead Briggs style engines were beginning to be built in large numbers. My earliest Briggs engine is a 1915. The conjecture would certinally have been "How long will the heavy old style Hit and Miss engines last in the marketplace"? Well, they were still being produced in quanity as late as 1955 by Fairbanks-Morse. I have purchased original parts for my 1944 7 HP F-M from them. Hit and Miss style engines are currently being built by the thousands in India.
If you have a 1918 Fairbanks-Morse "Z" Hit and Miss motor and need a new piston or fuel tank or exhaust valve rocker they are currently being reproduced. Or for a Fuller Johnson or a Majestic. I purchase parts for my engines all the time, a couple were made in 1907. I predict there will never be a shortage of parts if even a very limited number of people want them.
Even if it were true that OHV engines were better in every way [which I'm not prepared to agree with because it is impossible for that to be true] they will never totally displace the flatties just as the flatties never totally killed the hit and miss. By the way. Want a brand new Ford Flathead V8 block? They are now casting new ones because old originals are getting scarse. So it is probably safe to say that the modern OHV automotive engine has not, after being out of production for 56 years, totally displaced them.
I suppose there had to be a lot of conjecture in the early 1920s when smaller, lighter, more efficient flathead Briggs style engines were beginning to be built in large numbers. My earliest Briggs engine is a 1915. The conjecture would certinally have been "How long will the heavy old style Hit and Miss engines last in the marketplace"? Well, they were still being produced in quanity as late as 1955 by Fairbanks-Morse. I have purchased original parts for my 1944 7 HP F-M from them. Hit and Miss style engines are currently being built by the thousands in India.
If you have a 1918 Fairbanks-Morse "Z" Hit and Miss motor and need a new piston or fuel tank or exhaust valve rocker they are currently being reproduced. Or for a Fuller Johnson or a Majestic. I purchase parts for my engines all the time, a couple were made in 1907. I predict there will never be a shortage of parts if even a very limited number of people want them.
Even if it were true that OHV engines were better in every way [which I'm not prepared to agree with because it is impossible for that to be true] they will never totally displace the flatties just as the flatties never totally killed the hit and miss. By the way. Want a brand new Ford Flathead V8 block? They are now casting new ones because old originals are getting scarse. So it is probably safe to say that the modern OHV automotive engine has not, after being out of production for 56 years, totally displaced them.
you man a good point "gasser" about jr dragsters i think thats the only thing saving flatheads from becoming obselete. jr dragsters wont leave flatheads i guess since flatheads have high rpms and will have good top speeds even with a 90 tooth sproket like at the wheels.also ohv has more moving parts so it has more thing that can and will break
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Never wondered why Jr dragsters are mostly flatties......be nice for someone to explain that.
As far as parts go, I think all billet parts are based on a CNC software program and of course a billet core. Seeing that most small engine parts are quite the same as far as size goes. I'm sure the cores are all the same, Flywheels, Rods, Lifters, ECT.
So if they stopped making parts, to make them again all they would have to do is pull up the software program.
As far as parts go, I think all billet parts are based on a CNC software program and of course a billet core. Seeing that most small engine parts are quite the same as far as size goes. I'm sure the cores are all the same, Flywheels, Rods, Lifters, ECT.
So if they stopped making parts, to make them again all they would have to do is pull up the software program.
1. A flat motor is more compact [less volume], fits in more places.
2. " " has fewer parts. More reliable, easier to service, cheaper to fix.
3. " " does not have to rely on oil 'mist' to lube the valve gear. No vaccum hose to carb.
4. Air cooled OHV engines have a problem with head cooling because the valve box prevents a large area of the head from being cooled. Hopped up OHV engines will suffer durability problems that the Briggs style will not when ran hard for an extended time, not just a 20 second burst.
5. A flat motor weighs less.
6. " " can use a syphon type carb because the carb is high enough to get the tank below it. Syphon carbs cannot leak gas on the floor [due to a stuck float valve] and burn down the house/shop. And the straight carb is a LOT more reliable.
7. A 6.5 HP clone OHV does not have a performance advantage on a 5 HP Briggs in stock form. In fact there is a big body of evidence that the Briggs is faster. Ususlly when you hear the clone being bragged up it is a comparison of a new clone and a well used Briggs that often is really a 4 HP!
8. The fastest, meanest, most highly tuned, highest out put small engine of the type we are talking about here is the Briggs style, not OHV. If you don't believe that take a look at some JR. Dragsters.
9. A clone looks like a piese of Asian junk....IMHO.
10. A clone devalues any vintage mini it is put in.
11.
12.
Ther are more reasons to say that a flat motor will not go away any time soon.
2. " " has fewer parts. More reliable, easier to service, cheaper to fix.
3. " " does not have to rely on oil 'mist' to lube the valve gear. No vaccum hose to carb.
4. Air cooled OHV engines have a problem with head cooling because the valve box prevents a large area of the head from being cooled. Hopped up OHV engines will suffer durability problems that the Briggs style will not when ran hard for an extended time, not just a 20 second burst.
5. A flat motor weighs less.
6. " " can use a syphon type carb because the carb is high enough to get the tank below it. Syphon carbs cannot leak gas on the floor [due to a stuck float valve] and burn down the house/shop. And the straight carb is a LOT more reliable.
7. A 6.5 HP clone OHV does not have a performance advantage on a 5 HP Briggs in stock form. In fact there is a big body of evidence that the Briggs is faster. Ususlly when you hear the clone being bragged up it is a comparison of a new clone and a well used Briggs that often is really a 4 HP!
8. The fastest, meanest, most highly tuned, highest out put small engine of the type we are talking about here is the Briggs style, not OHV. If you don't believe that take a look at some JR. Dragsters.
9. A clone looks like a piese of Asian junk....IMHO.
10. A clone devalues any vintage mini it is put in.
11.
12.
Ther are more reasons to say that a flat motor will not go away any time soon.