Predator 212 starting problems

[6.5hp Shinebox]

Ok cleaned carb got the motor to start with a drill...as the motor idled the starter nut & cup came flying off...i put back on checked my timing put my pushrods & lifters back in..& no start now, i dont remeber if i had a key on my crank...and theres just a little bit of damage to the flywheel nothing crazy.....


Now when i try to start i get nothing just backfires real loud ,spits fire out header

Do you think my flywheel is bad?
Or my valve lash needs to be set again?

 

[6.5hp Shinebox]

Bump

 

[OND]

Sounds like its out of time to me.....do you have a flywheel key in it now ?

 

[6.5hp Shinebox]

Sounds like its out of time to me.....do you have a flywheel key in it now ?

No no keyway......when i put it back on there was a small shaving left from the old keyway...i reset my timing on the cam Maybe it got out of wack again? Or maybe carb us dirty again? Idk

 

[OND]

I personally have never seen a carb make a engine back fire .....but what do I know !

 

[6.5hp Shinebox]

If i reset the timing, Will it continue to get out of timing if intry to start without a keyway ? I suspected it has to do with the flywheel area, considering when the flywheel came off thats when the problems started,

I may have sprayed Some lubricant in to my carb tho, the starter flyid looks just like the lube ,....lol so that could be it also

After work today im going to pick up some feeler gauges and make sure my valve lash is correct, and check my magneto gap im sure i have spark otherwise i wouldnt get a backfire...

So that being said this weekend im gunna Re-clean the carb , crack the crank case open check timing 1 more time and see what happens.............


But without that keyway is it just a waste of time?

 

[6.5hp Shinebox]

I personally have never seen a carb make a engine back fire .....but what do I know !

eset the timing, Will it continue to get out of timing if intry to start without a keyway ? I suspected it has to do with the flywheel area, considering when the flywheel came off thats when the problems started,

I may have sprayed Some lubricant in to my carb tho, the starter flyid looks just like the lube ,....lol so that could be it also

After work today im going to pick up some feeler gauges and make sure my valve lash is correct, and check my magneto gap im sure i have spark otherwise i wouldnt get a backfire...

So that being said this weekend im gunna Re-clean the carb , crack the crank case open check timing 1 more time and see what happens.............


But without that keyway is it just a waste of time?

 

[OND]

The key way is what keeps the spark at the right place to fire when the engine is on its compression stroke.....but if you are smart enough to use a degree wheel and a piston stop you can lap in your flywheel and crank and set your timing where ever you want.

 

[6.5hp Shinebox]

The key way is what keeps the spark at the right place to fire when the engine is on its compression stroke.....but if you are smart enough to use a degree wheel and a piston stop you can lap in your flywheel and crank and set your timing where ever you want.

I gotcha, so it would be the keyway throwing me out of wack.... could you point me into the right direction to finding a degree wheel & piston stop?.....or can I just buy a new key? Flywheel was a arc billet 32 degree advance

 

[OND]

That 32 degrees is plenty of timing....I would just buy a new key. Maybe a small engine shop would have one in your area.

 

[6.5hp Shinebox]

That 32 degrees is plenty of timing....I would just buy a new key. Maybe a small engine shop would have one in your area.

That easy huh? Slide the keyway in and boom!...? Alright ill call and see

 

[6.5hp Shinebox]

That 32 degrees is plenty of timing....I would just buy a new key. Maybe a small engine shop would have one in your area.

When you say a new key you mean a keyway ? ...

Also the flywheel i had says it has a 8 degree advabce built into the flywheel.....then 32 degrees ....which key do i need to biy to correct the problem?

Hemi predator

 

[KMC3420]

When you say a new key you mean a keyway ? ...

Also the flywheel i had says it has a 8 degree advabce built into the flywheel.....then 32 degrees ....which key do i need to biy to correct the problem?

Hemi predator

You need a stock flywheel key as ARC has done you the service of advancing your ARC flywheel where it needs to be.

 

[6.5hp Shinebox]

You need a stock flywheel key as ARC has done you the service of advancing your ARC flywheel where it needs to be.

Thank you very much for the Very simple reply

 

[KMC3420]

How many foot pounds are you torquing the flywheel to? I have never seen one fly off thank goodness.

If you are going to the parts store to get feeler gauges, get some lapping compound and lap your flywheel to your crank if there are shavings from your old timing key, i would say there might be a few gouges on your crank or flywheel.

 

[6.5hp Shinebox]

How many foot pounds are you torquing the flywheel to? I have never seen one fly off thank goodness.

If you are going to the parts store to get feeler gauges, get some lapping compound and lap your flywheel to your crank if there are shavings from your old timing key, i would say there might be a few gouges on your crank or flywheel.

Yes there is a small gouge on my flywheel...no damage to the crank tho, i ordered a new flywheel from OldMiniBikes, just incase its 100$ no biggie..also stopping by uncle franks to pick up that timing key ....stock correct? When i lapp my flywheel what do i do? Just apply the compound to crank & push on bolt nut & call it good? Never lapped anything before

 

[KMC3420]

Yes there is a small gouge on my flywheel...no damage to the crank tho, i ordered a new flywheel from OldMiniBikes, just incase its 100$ no biggie..also stopping by uncle franks to pick up that timing key ....stock correct? When i lapp my flywheel what do i do? Just apply the compound to crank & push on bolt nut & call it good? Never lapped anything before

Yes, stock timing key. To lap your flywheel, obtain 2 different lapping compounds, fine & medium:
VersaChem 13209 - Valve Grinding Compound | O'Reilly Auto Parts

You will apply the medium 1st, I put the compound on the crank versus inside the flywheel, make sure you have entire coverage, put the flywheel onto the end of the crank, do not install the nut at this point as the flywheel will be taken off. Spin the flywheel both ways, clockwise and counter clockwise. Do this until you see the flywheel is leaving a footprint the same size as the flywheel contact patch. Remove the flywheel, clean with mineral spirits or whatever you choose to clean with, just ensure all the lapping compound is off your crank and flywheel, repeat this process with the fine compound, before you torque the flywheel on, ensure you have 0 remains of the lapping compound on your crank & flywheel. The goal here is the ensure the entire tapper of the flywheel is touching the crank. Ensure you clean off all the lapping compound and torque your flywheel, ARC recommends 54 foot lbs.
Post #76 page 8 highlights this.
http://www.oldminibikes.com/forum/b...ical-mental-therapy-briggs-3hp-cousins-8.html

 

[6.5hp Shinebox]

Yes, stock timing key. To lap your flywheel, obtain 2 different lapping compounds, fine & medium:
VersaChem 13209 - Valve Grinding Compound | O'Reilly Auto Parts

You will apply the medium 1st, I put the compound on the crank versus inside the flywheel, make sure you have entire coverage, put the flywheel onto the end of the crank, do not install the nut at this point as the flywheel will be taken off. Spin the flywheel both ways, clockwise and counter clockwise. Do this until you see the flywheel is leaving a footprint the same size as the flywheel contact patch. Remove the flywheel, clean with mineral spirits or whatever you choose to clean with, just ensure all the lapping compound is off your crank and flywheel, repeat this process with the fine compound, before you torque the flywheel on, ensure you have 0 remains of the lapping compound on your crank & flywheel. The goal here is the ensure the entire tapper of the flywheel is touching the crank. Ensure you clean off all the lapping compound and torque your flywheel, ARC recommends 54 foot lbs.
Post #76 page 8 highlights this.
http://www.oldminibikes.com/forum/b...ical-mental-therapy-briggs-3hp-cousins-8.html

So what does the lapping compound do tho? I apply it then remove the compound? Does it just clean the crank or what? Im not following

 

[KMC3420]

So what does the lapping compound do tho? I apply it then remove the compound? Does it just clean the crank or what? Im not following

The lapping compound has media in it, like sand paper, it smooths the 2 mating metals. Making the two mating metals uniform.

 

[6.5hp Shinebox]

The lapping compound has media in it, like sand paper, it smooths the 2 mating metals. Making the two mating metals uniform.

Well cant find a stock keyway....shops dont sell them