I've resigned myself to accepting what I'm about to describe as a learning experience, but I want to share it with others for the purposes of feedback as well as helping to prevent similar issues for others out there.
I sold an engine to OldMiniBikes member Karl Masslofsky (screenname Not so mini bike) that I described as a 5-horsepower Briggs Raptor minus its carb and gas tank for $160 shipped to his door. It was among many in a large parts and engine lot I recently purchased and I knew nothing about it other than purely superficial visuals. Turns out I was wrong and shortsighted on a number of fronts, but I'll get to that shortly.
As far as I knew, with what little knowledge of Raptor engines I have, and it is VERY little, it was a Raptor; all I went off of was the "Warning: This is a Racing Engine etc" decal on top of the blowerhousing.
I checked to be sure it was dry (no oil, etc.) and it appeared to be... I stuck my finger down one of the oil fillers and didn't notice anything more than a vague trace that I figured was residual from the oil filler so I boxed it up and shipped it to him.
Karl texts me upon its arrival (it's three hours earlier here in Oregon, so I got his texts with pics as I was getting ready for work) and informs me the engine is NOT a Raptor and that the entire thing is an oil soaked mess, and it was surprising that it shipped in light of that; I agreed, but also said I sincerely thought it was dry of any fluids before boxing it up.
The issues continued, however, as it turns out the block had been patched (see photos), something I've honest to God never seen done before and, regardless of how obvious it may seem to others, I did NOT notice when I was checking it out and boxing it up for him.
I felt bad that it wasn't what he wanted and told him I'd offer a full refund and apologized for things going wrong, as I sincerely didn't know all the features of a true Raptor. He gave me some of those details and specs, which will be extremely useful from this point forward; lesson learned, and if I learn from it, all the better.
I sent back his funds that night after work, which cleared through PayPal within a few days.
Not being in any particular hurry to arrange for the engine's return, I assumed it would be something we'd discuss at some point in the near future.
I never heard a word, so I texted today: "So it's been almost two weeks since I refunded your money on that engine... I just wanted to check and see what was happening in terms of getting the engine sent back?"
His reply: "You paying to ship it back."
"I just assume throw it in the junk pile."
"The thing was covered in something mixed with oil. It's been sitting out side since. If boxed up and shipped back I can but I'm not gonna pay for it. Plus it needs to be cleaned and drained of whatever is in it."
(It should be noted that in his initial texts at the time he received the engine he told me the oil that leaked smelled like vinegar; the only thing I'd been told about the engine when I picked it up was it had been an alky racing kart engine, so I have no idea what factor that may or may not play in the strange odor).
Me (paraphrased, as I apparently didn't save the text): I'll pay for half the shipping since I paid it in full the first time.
Him: "No. I'm not paying any shipping. I bought an item. I was lied to about what it was and turn out the engine has a huge patch in the front of the block. If you want it back you're gonna have to pay full shipping. Be lucky I'm not asking for anything for my time to do everything."
(I have to interject here that I didn't LIE about anything. I may have been ignorant about what I sold, and I made that clear in replying to his initial texts when the engine arrived, but that's not the same as purposefully deceiving someone outright).
Me: "Be lucky? It wasn't like I sent you the wrong engine on purpose. I have no control over shipping costs but I figured sharing the return cost would be most reasonable. it's nowhere near fair for me to be out the engine and the money. know what I mean?"
Him: "But how is it fair to ask me to pay for something I'm not keeping. Why should I be out because you were uneducated on what you had? Not to mention it wasn't only the wrong engine but had a huge patch in the front. You say you didn't notice it. Lol. It was the first thing I noticed when pulling it out of the box. I am not paying one cent to ship this f**king boat anchor."
I give up at this point, replying: "Keep it. I can see I'm not dealing with someone of integrity."
Him: Youre the only one that thinks that
Me: Well we will see soon. I tried to compromise. As for the patch I didn't even know people did that. As far as I knew which I'll admit has fallen far short here once an engine block is broken or cracked it gets junked. I've never heard of or seen anyone patching a Briggs block.
So that's it. I'm out the money and the engine, which I will chalk up to a learning experience, but I have to ask: am I really out of line asking to share the shipping costs for the return of the product that Karl (completely justifiably) didn't want? Is that not a fair compromise?
Because in my opinion the block may or may not be crap (depending on the quality of the repair--personally I wouldn't want to run a patched block either) but there's other components there still of potentially functioning value (blowerhousing, recoil starter, internals, cylinder head, ignition coil, flywheel, etc). I have no idea if the engine is stone stock inside or if it's been upgraded.
I would appreciate any and all constructive feedback on this issue.
I sold an engine to OldMiniBikes member Karl Masslofsky (screenname Not so mini bike) that I described as a 5-horsepower Briggs Raptor minus its carb and gas tank for $160 shipped to his door. It was among many in a large parts and engine lot I recently purchased and I knew nothing about it other than purely superficial visuals. Turns out I was wrong and shortsighted on a number of fronts, but I'll get to that shortly.
As far as I knew, with what little knowledge of Raptor engines I have, and it is VERY little, it was a Raptor; all I went off of was the "Warning: This is a Racing Engine etc" decal on top of the blowerhousing.
I checked to be sure it was dry (no oil, etc.) and it appeared to be... I stuck my finger down one of the oil fillers and didn't notice anything more than a vague trace that I figured was residual from the oil filler so I boxed it up and shipped it to him.
Karl texts me upon its arrival (it's three hours earlier here in Oregon, so I got his texts with pics as I was getting ready for work) and informs me the engine is NOT a Raptor and that the entire thing is an oil soaked mess, and it was surprising that it shipped in light of that; I agreed, but also said I sincerely thought it was dry of any fluids before boxing it up.
The issues continued, however, as it turns out the block had been patched (see photos), something I've honest to God never seen done before and, regardless of how obvious it may seem to others, I did NOT notice when I was checking it out and boxing it up for him.
I felt bad that it wasn't what he wanted and told him I'd offer a full refund and apologized for things going wrong, as I sincerely didn't know all the features of a true Raptor. He gave me some of those details and specs, which will be extremely useful from this point forward; lesson learned, and if I learn from it, all the better.
I sent back his funds that night after work, which cleared through PayPal within a few days.
Not being in any particular hurry to arrange for the engine's return, I assumed it would be something we'd discuss at some point in the near future.
I never heard a word, so I texted today: "So it's been almost two weeks since I refunded your money on that engine... I just wanted to check and see what was happening in terms of getting the engine sent back?"
His reply: "You paying to ship it back."
"I just assume throw it in the junk pile."
"The thing was covered in something mixed with oil. It's been sitting out side since. If boxed up and shipped back I can but I'm not gonna pay for it. Plus it needs to be cleaned and drained of whatever is in it."
(It should be noted that in his initial texts at the time he received the engine he told me the oil that leaked smelled like vinegar; the only thing I'd been told about the engine when I picked it up was it had been an alky racing kart engine, so I have no idea what factor that may or may not play in the strange odor).
Me (paraphrased, as I apparently didn't save the text): I'll pay for half the shipping since I paid it in full the first time.
Him: "No. I'm not paying any shipping. I bought an item. I was lied to about what it was and turn out the engine has a huge patch in the front of the block. If you want it back you're gonna have to pay full shipping. Be lucky I'm not asking for anything for my time to do everything."
(I have to interject here that I didn't LIE about anything. I may have been ignorant about what I sold, and I made that clear in replying to his initial texts when the engine arrived, but that's not the same as purposefully deceiving someone outright).
Me: "Be lucky? It wasn't like I sent you the wrong engine on purpose. I have no control over shipping costs but I figured sharing the return cost would be most reasonable. it's nowhere near fair for me to be out the engine and the money. know what I mean?"
Him: "But how is it fair to ask me to pay for something I'm not keeping. Why should I be out because you were uneducated on what you had? Not to mention it wasn't only the wrong engine but had a huge patch in the front. You say you didn't notice it. Lol. It was the first thing I noticed when pulling it out of the box. I am not paying one cent to ship this f**king boat anchor."
I give up at this point, replying: "Keep it. I can see I'm not dealing with someone of integrity."
Him: Youre the only one that thinks that
Me: Well we will see soon. I tried to compromise. As for the patch I didn't even know people did that. As far as I knew which I'll admit has fallen far short here once an engine block is broken or cracked it gets junked. I've never heard of or seen anyone patching a Briggs block.
So that's it. I'm out the money and the engine, which I will chalk up to a learning experience, but I have to ask: am I really out of line asking to share the shipping costs for the return of the product that Karl (completely justifiably) didn't want? Is that not a fair compromise?
Because in my opinion the block may or may not be crap (depending on the quality of the repair--personally I wouldn't want to run a patched block either) but there's other components there still of potentially functioning value (blowerhousing, recoil starter, internals, cylinder head, ignition coil, flywheel, etc). I have no idea if the engine is stone stock inside or if it's been upgraded.
I would appreciate any and all constructive feedback on this issue.
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