Any previously good paying job exacted a price for the working man.
Now they want you to work like this guy...
This is the future if you keep listening to the bullshit and voting for people that despise and lie to you.
Get to work peasent take the pay cut or we will buy a robots and export your jobs.
And don't you dare think of taxing my caviar fund....
lister - YouTube
Now they want you to work like this guy...
This is the future if you keep listening to the bullshit and voting for people that despise and lie to you.
Get to work peasent take the pay cut or we will buy a robots and export your jobs.
And don't you dare think of taxing my caviar fund....
lister - YouTube
I'm a tool & die maker/tooling designer. Every day for 35 years now, I go to work & they give me a part, or a drawing of a part, and I have to design & make automated tooling that will produce it. No matter what it is.
If I can't do it, I don't have a job.
If I can't do it fast enough, I don't have a job.
If I can't do it cheap enough, I don't have a job.
Pretty simple really. Every new work order that hits my desk may be my last. And, the higher the mountain I climb, the higher the next mountain gets because I just did a project that was near impossible.
Every day. For 35 years.
I would give ANYTHING for a job where I do the same thing every day, day after day.
And get paid what I get paid now to do it.
THAT is my gripe about unions, the level of knowledge/ability/training/ulcers/ per dollar is way out of hand in many cases. I'm not saying it may not be hard work, but too often it's a skill that can be taught in months, not decades.
Here's one that always gets me... the machists' union at the airlines.
Who are the machinists? The people that work on the planes of course.
Wrong... they're in the mechanics' union.
That girl that takes your ticket when you get on a plane is a machinist.... she operates the machine that the ticket goes into.
If I can't do it, I don't have a job.
If I can't do it fast enough, I don't have a job.
If I can't do it cheap enough, I don't have a job.
Pretty simple really. Every new work order that hits my desk may be my last. And, the higher the mountain I climb, the higher the next mountain gets because I just did a project that was near impossible.
Every day. For 35 years.
I would give ANYTHING for a job where I do the same thing every day, day after day.
And get paid what I get paid now to do it.
THAT is my gripe about unions, the level of knowledge/ability/training/ulcers/ per dollar is way out of hand in many cases. I'm not saying it may not be hard work, but too often it's a skill that can be taught in months, not decades.
Here's one that always gets me... the machists' union at the airlines.
Who are the machinists? The people that work on the planes of course.
Wrong... they're in the mechanics' union.
That girl that takes your ticket when you get on a plane is a machinist.... she operates the machine that the ticket goes into.
they took our Cost of living away 4 years ago so that dropped our hourly pay, took away some holiday time, Christmas bonus, etc... all in all we lost about $8k a year.... We had a quota of 500 cars in 10 hours, they speed the line up and we build 500 in a little over 9 and then shut down because they know 80% of the people will run out the gate (NOT ME), so they just saved thousands of dollars when those guys leave..They got their production numbers and paid less for it... does that knock the price of the car down?? where did that savings go?
again I'm thankful for my job..... I just wish people would stop bashing the autoworker and blaming us for the economic woes because we make too much money...:doah:
You know what it's all about... you work for your money on the line.....There were more days than not when I got home I sat down in the chair and that's where I was til I went to bed....nothing left in me at the end of the day...... I sure don't see how this is going to work with the new hires doing the same job at half the wages, no pension, less benifits knowing the guy next to them is making more money.....I see alot of turn over in manpower...
again I'm thankful for my job..... I just wish people would stop bashing the autoworker and blaming us for the economic woes because we make too much money...:doah:
You know what it's all about... you work for your money on the line.....There were more days than not when I got home I sat down in the chair and that's where I was til I went to bed....nothing left in me at the end of the day...... I sure don't see how this is going to work with the new hires doing the same job at half the wages, no pension, less benifits knowing the guy next to them is making more money.....I see alot of turn over in manpower...
You got to accept that is going to happen I am afraid. When they dupe the public into voting in right to work, you just lost what little power you had to keep stuff like that happening. You can't strike or negotiate anymore. If you have been a loyal worker with benefits built up they will do their best to get rid of you, because you cost them too much money. They want younger folks, for insurance and benefit purposes, and the new worker doesn't know or care what the administration is trying to do, which is getting all they can and not paying out anything they promised in the first place. When the jap cars started assembling their stuff over here, they kept the unions out by finding depressed areas to put their plants and paying close to union wages because they had to. Now without they higher union wages being paid, I bet the jap factories will cut wages also. But we won't see any reductions in the prices of any make of vehicles. The place I worked got so crazy that even though we were union, they cut everything, sick days, vacation pay, wouldn't pay overtime after 40, collective bargaining is how they got out of that...the union agreed to it so that made it legal. So in this case they were able to use the collective bargaining agreement that used to insure the worker with a bit of security and protection into a weapon. I hope that doesn't happen, but the bunch I used to work for were incapable of coming up with that idea on their own in my opinion, it came from an organized source. Overtime pay after 45 hours was the way it was when I got out of there. I had over 160 hours of sick pay I didn't use that was owed to me that they refused to pay even though it was in the contract. I just hope I don't see any of the out in public, I will probably end up in jail but it will be worth it.:laugh:
Union dues
As I understand it, one of the functions of the "right to work" law is making it illegal to force workers to pay union dues. If the unions were providing so much to their workers, why would this even be an issue? Wouldn't everyone want to contribute?
Why would union workers be upset over having the right to decide if they receive value for their money or not?
:shrug:
As I understand it, one of the functions of the "right to work" law is making it illegal to force workers to pay union dues. If the unions were providing so much to their workers, why would this even be an issue? Wouldn't everyone want to contribute?
Why would union workers be upset over having the right to decide if they receive value for their money or not?
:shrug:
Here in Ontario if you have issue paying dues in a closed shop you can chose to have that money donated to a worthy cause.
You still have to pay though.
Right to work however plays to that apsect of human nature greed....
Once a few people start to get the bennifits of a union without having to share int he cost of running the union then people start to jump ship.
Eventualy a minority of people skip out on their dues and this does starve the union of needed funds.
What other things does the union need money for?
How about lawyers.
We haveq arealy good leagle team here and we need them.
They fight for the pensioners too.
But my union funds also pay for other things.
I know my money is sent to other locals in trouble, sometimes even other unions( we suported the CAW when Cat closed them down ).
My funds also suport social causes and human rights campanes around the world.
But if you starve the union of money then the good deeds become less and less and we become less relevent.
Now another thing to consider is a man who will not pay a union due is likely not going to respect a picket line.
WE have enough trouble with scabs these days so why make it more tempting?
The reasoning for a closed shop is simple.
We all bennifit and we all pay.
How would you feel about a righ to pay taxes bill?
Don't like them don't pay.
I'm sure many of you agree there are reasosn you don't want to pay taxes but in the end you must if you want to live ina civil society.
Right to work is simply a tool used to weaken unions to the point where they can't fight for their members effectively.
It's intended to divide people.
And it works to the end....
You still have to pay though.
Right to work however plays to that apsect of human nature greed....
Once a few people start to get the bennifits of a union without having to share int he cost of running the union then people start to jump ship.
Eventualy a minority of people skip out on their dues and this does starve the union of needed funds.
What other things does the union need money for?
How about lawyers.
We haveq arealy good leagle team here and we need them.
They fight for the pensioners too.
But my union funds also pay for other things.
I know my money is sent to other locals in trouble, sometimes even other unions( we suported the CAW when Cat closed them down ).
My funds also suport social causes and human rights campanes around the world.
But if you starve the union of money then the good deeds become less and less and we become less relevent.
Now another thing to consider is a man who will not pay a union due is likely not going to respect a picket line.
WE have enough trouble with scabs these days so why make it more tempting?
The reasoning for a closed shop is simple.
We all bennifit and we all pay.
How would you feel about a righ to pay taxes bill?
Don't like them don't pay.
I'm sure many of you agree there are reasosn you don't want to pay taxes but in the end you must if you want to live ina civil society.
Right to work is simply a tool used to weaken unions to the point where they can't fight for their members effectively.
It's intended to divide people.
And it works to the end....
Yeah that is part of it. Here is the pro's and con's. Right-to-work law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia But in my case, with our union, over a 10 year period with right to work, they busted/weakened our union over time. excuses from non members was that the union couldn't do anything so why pay and the company used the collective bargaining agreement to not even pay overtime after 40, and also wrote into the contract that we could not strike. The latest when I left was they split up negotiating with the drivers from the mechanics, and were trying to create a problem between both. We got one raise in five years, and what they did was to reduce the hours/pay for the routes we had to sign up for to run, so they actually ended up taking away more pay than the raise. They were 60 thousand behind on their part of retirement funding, and the union had to hire attorneys on and on. I couldn't really blame the non payers, they probably were the same ones that voted for right to work.
All I can say is, I work in a right to work state, and I was raised in a Union state and cant see much difference in ether.
I also have another secert, I worked at Gateway 2000 Computers under Rick Snyder back in the late 90's. I can say that he treated us very well and the pay was good for for working in South Dakota. So just give it all time and it will be fine.
I also have another secert, I worked at Gateway 2000 Computers under Rick Snyder back in the late 90's. I can say that he treated us very well and the pay was good for for working in South Dakota. So just give it all time and it will be fine.
This pretty much matches my personal experience with unions. Since I have been self employed most of my life, I have only had two experiences with unions, and both were very unpleasant.
Experience 1:
I needed extra income one winter (I run/own a lawncare company, so winters are slow). I went to an employment agency, they found me a job at a factory making vending machines. The pay was good, and I was excited to get some extra income to catch up on my bills. I showed up for work the first day and found that what the employment agency had NOT told me was that the factory workers were striking, and the factory had decided to replace them. The "workers" had blocked the parking lot entrance, and were throwing rocks and bottles at the "scabs" (people willing to do the work for a wage they were unwilling to work for), then, a guy a few cars ahead of me got pulled out through his broken window and they started beating on him.
Lesson 1: Unions = thugs, if I am not willing to do a job for $X/hr, I leave and find something else, I don't attack and threaten anyone else who is willing to take the job that I am not willing to do, that is NOT how a free society works.
Experience 2:
I worked one winter at a unionized package handling facility. I was just a temp, or a seasonal employee, not union, but all the permanent workers were union, and they were the laziest, most useless people I have ever had to work with. In an 8 hr shift they averaged maybe 2-3 hrs of work. Many who had been there for years did not understand the sorting system and did not care to learn it. One employee who had the most seniority had constructed a fort in a corner of the warehouse, made from old boxes, undeliverable packages and covered with an old parachute, (I'm not making this up!) He had a TV and a fridge back there, and a little couch he had brought in. He spent 90% of his time at work hiding out in his fort, watching TV and drinking soda. Were the other union workers upset? Heck no.... they looked up to the guy, and the 2nd most senior man was eager to take his turn in "the hideout". Now, there were 2 of the union guys who actually had good work ethics, but just two, out of over 70. I was asked by the supervisor if I wanted to become permanent, but told that if I did, I would have to join the union. I gave notice that very day.
Lesson 2 = unions reward seniority, not initiative or hard work, and breed laziness.
Now, these are just my experiences. I have friends who are plumbers, electricians and such, who have had great experiences with their unions. I have yet to have a good one. I have hired both union and non union tradesmen to do work for me, and have generally found the non union ones to have a better work ethic, and be more likely to get jobs done on time, though some union guys have been good too.
Experience 1:
I needed extra income one winter (I run/own a lawncare company, so winters are slow). I went to an employment agency, they found me a job at a factory making vending machines. The pay was good, and I was excited to get some extra income to catch up on my bills. I showed up for work the first day and found that what the employment agency had NOT told me was that the factory workers were striking, and the factory had decided to replace them. The "workers" had blocked the parking lot entrance, and were throwing rocks and bottles at the "scabs" (people willing to do the work for a wage they were unwilling to work for), then, a guy a few cars ahead of me got pulled out through his broken window and they started beating on him.
Lesson 1: Unions = thugs, if I am not willing to do a job for $X/hr, I leave and find something else, I don't attack and threaten anyone else who is willing to take the job that I am not willing to do, that is NOT how a free society works.
Experience 2:
I worked one winter at a unionized package handling facility. I was just a temp, or a seasonal employee, not union, but all the permanent workers were union, and they were the laziest, most useless people I have ever had to work with. In an 8 hr shift they averaged maybe 2-3 hrs of work. Many who had been there for years did not understand the sorting system and did not care to learn it. One employee who had the most seniority had constructed a fort in a corner of the warehouse, made from old boxes, undeliverable packages and covered with an old parachute, (I'm not making this up!) He had a TV and a fridge back there, and a little couch he had brought in. He spent 90% of his time at work hiding out in his fort, watching TV and drinking soda. Were the other union workers upset? Heck no.... they looked up to the guy, and the 2nd most senior man was eager to take his turn in "the hideout". Now, there were 2 of the union guys who actually had good work ethics, but just two, out of over 70. I was asked by the supervisor if I wanted to become permanent, but told that if I did, I would have to join the union. I gave notice that very day.
Lesson 2 = unions reward seniority, not initiative or hard work, and breed laziness.
Now, these are just my experiences. I have friends who are plumbers, electricians and such, who have had great experiences with their unions. I have yet to have a good one. I have hired both union and non union tradesmen to do work for me, and have generally found the non union ones to have a better work ethic, and be more likely to get jobs done on time, though some union guys have been good too.
Sorry Turftech:
But lesson 1.
Don't cross a picket line.
Its there for a reason, there is obviously a strike on and tempers are running high.
Lesson 2
You found a lazy unproductive poorly run plant.
Where were the managers and supervision?
The old saying when the cats away the mice will play aplies to both union and non union places of work.
I worked in a non union plant there we had marrette fights ( we made guns to fire wire nuts with compressed air ) when we ran out of parts.
We would hide behind machinery in little forts we made untill steel and parts were delivered.
The production manager headed up the plate shop and assembly area workers.
Electrical and drafting were headed by the electrical foreman.....
The owners had very nice cars....
They went bankrupt in 2003 when the Chinese began to clone the machines we built.
But lesson 1.
Don't cross a picket line.
Its there for a reason, there is obviously a strike on and tempers are running high.
Lesson 2
You found a lazy unproductive poorly run plant.
Where were the managers and supervision?
The old saying when the cats away the mice will play aplies to both union and non union places of work.
I worked in a non union plant there we had marrette fights ( we made guns to fire wire nuts with compressed air ) when we ran out of parts.
We would hide behind machinery in little forts we made untill steel and parts were delivered.
The production manager headed up the plate shop and assembly area workers.
Electrical and drafting were headed by the electrical foreman.....
The owners had very nice cars....
They went bankrupt in 2003 when the Chinese began to clone the machines we built.
Indeed.
So why don't we pass laws that fine companies with bad management?
Or bring some other presure to bare on buisness to run a tight ship?
I'll tell you why.
Its all the workers fault.
If you just worked a little harder everything will be OK
Remember Boxer, the horse from Aniaml farm that truely believed if he could just work a little harder everything would be OK?
Didn't work out too well for old boxer did it?
boxer dies - YouTube
Amusing (or is it frightening) that we can take example from Orwell's animal farm and aply it to our own system now isn't is......
All animals are equal but some are more equal than others.
AND THATS OK CAUSE GREED IS GOOD.
I won't buy into that Bullshit.
I am good Donkey and do as much as I need too to get the job done.
Thats not lazy, thats survival, this body has to last untill pension without a serious accident or too much wear and tear.
" Donkeys live a long time you know... "
Perhaps one of UAW members here would like to tell you how many injuries they had on the line compared to a toyota worker just a few years ago ( before thinmgs went to hell )?
Incase they are quiet this evening a UAW worker was less productive but they suffered less stress and work place injuries.
Much lower burn out too.
Now Japanese managers jump out of windows.
Chinese labour jumps out of windows too.
Where I work we have a joke all the bosses have windows on the ground floor to keep them from jumping to their deaths ( some like me sugest we shoudl build taller offices because what we got now are a pretty sorry lot for thinkers and planners ).
All this push to slash costs and work harder are not sustainable.
People are getting fed up
People change jobs now every 5 to 7 years on average.
Thats not enough time to retrain and be productive.
Push push push.....
Speed up the line
Burn out your workers.
productivity drops.
Demand wage cust.
Faster faster faster.
Wage cuts are easier than investing in worker and training....
Next thing you.
We live in Chinese North America.
And they put netys around the factory to catch the guy that goes nuts and climbs out a window
So why don't we pass laws that fine companies with bad management?
Or bring some other presure to bare on buisness to run a tight ship?
I'll tell you why.
Its all the workers fault.
If you just worked a little harder everything will be OK
Remember Boxer, the horse from Aniaml farm that truely believed if he could just work a little harder everything would be OK?
Didn't work out too well for old boxer did it?
boxer dies - YouTube
Amusing (or is it frightening) that we can take example from Orwell's animal farm and aply it to our own system now isn't is......
All animals are equal but some are more equal than others.
AND THATS OK CAUSE GREED IS GOOD.
I won't buy into that Bullshit.
I am good Donkey and do as much as I need too to get the job done.
Thats not lazy, thats survival, this body has to last untill pension without a serious accident or too much wear and tear.
" Donkeys live a long time you know... "
Perhaps one of UAW members here would like to tell you how many injuries they had on the line compared to a toyota worker just a few years ago ( before thinmgs went to hell )?
Incase they are quiet this evening a UAW worker was less productive but they suffered less stress and work place injuries.
Much lower burn out too.
Now Japanese managers jump out of windows.
Chinese labour jumps out of windows too.
Where I work we have a joke all the bosses have windows on the ground floor to keep them from jumping to their deaths ( some like me sugest we shoudl build taller offices because what we got now are a pretty sorry lot for thinkers and planners ).
All this push to slash costs and work harder are not sustainable.
People are getting fed up
People change jobs now every 5 to 7 years on average.
Thats not enough time to retrain and be productive.
Push push push.....
Speed up the line
Burn out your workers.
productivity drops.
Demand wage cust.
Faster faster faster.
Wage cuts are easier than investing in worker and training....
Next thing you.
We live in Chinese North America.
And they put netys around the factory to catch the guy that goes nuts and climbs out a window
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