you didn't offend me, I TOTALLY AGREE!!! just like those guys in Detroit that got fired for drinking and getting high on lunch break when the news channel filmed them... The union prob negotiated thatthey go through a 30 day program and get their jobs back..
ut:.... it happens at our plant too, guys running to the bar at lunch... well the company hired private dicks to spy on these guys... after so long they dragged them all in the office....some got time off, others a warning.... We have poepl there that have been fired 3 and 4 times and the union gets their jobs back.... why?? I have no idea... maybe 1 time depending on the circumstances for getting fired but after the 2nd time...ADIOS.... have a nice life...
it's bull everywhere Tom, the common worker is getting squeezed every which way... anyway they can screw us over they will....
it's all downhill from here...it's not going to get any better no matter what they say.... we hit our high point....
ut:.... it happens at our plant too, guys running to the bar at lunch... well the company hired private dicks to spy on these guys... after so long they dragged them all in the office....some got time off, others a warning.... We have poepl there that have been fired 3 and 4 times and the union gets their jobs back.... why?? I have no idea... maybe 1 time depending on the circumstances for getting fired but after the 2nd time...ADIOS.... have a nice life...it's bull everywhere Tom, the common worker is getting squeezed every which way... anyway they can screw us over they will....
it's all downhill from here...it's not going to get any better no matter what they say.... we hit our high point....
I agree with drug and alchohol points.
I seen it too.
But I am reminded of a very progressive company HR intervention guy that used to pop out of the dambed places inthe midle of the night.
I'd watch him and he was looking for a guy with a drinking problem,
There to confront him and try and help him.
That sort of man trying to help a few is good.
But some are beyond help a a hazaard to everyone else.
Same HR guy followed me for a while.
He was quietly watching several of us who were working at that plant because we were on strike at the time from our real jobs.
I confronted him about it and he came out of the shadows and told me.
He was concerned with the considerable stress we had been under and just wanted to make sure we were adjusting.
He figuered if we could be turned away from the strike and previous employer we may stay for good.
Sure is hard to find a realy good company these days that wants to keep you that bad.....
All down hill from here comment.
Have you noticed its not about how little we are paid and how we are treated anymore?
Its look at that guy!
he is doing better than we are.
Lets make a stink and demand he be dragged down to our level.
Its easy to do that when the minority is the unionized labour
Like a pack of starving dogs we are turning one each other.
I seen it too.
But I am reminded of a very progressive company HR intervention guy that used to pop out of the dambed places inthe midle of the night.
I'd watch him and he was looking for a guy with a drinking problem,
There to confront him and try and help him.
That sort of man trying to help a few is good.
But some are beyond help a a hazaard to everyone else.
Same HR guy followed me for a while.
He was quietly watching several of us who were working at that plant because we were on strike at the time from our real jobs.
I confronted him about it and he came out of the shadows and told me.
He was concerned with the considerable stress we had been under and just wanted to make sure we were adjusting.
He figuered if we could be turned away from the strike and previous employer we may stay for good.
Sure is hard to find a realy good company these days that wants to keep you that bad.....
All down hill from here comment.
Have you noticed its not about how little we are paid and how we are treated anymore?
Its look at that guy!
he is doing better than we are.
Lets make a stink and demand he be dragged down to our level.
Its easy to do that when the minority is the unionized labour
Like a pack of starving dogs we are turning one each other.
More shite worht reading.....
See the chart
That is whats most telling.
Foxconn: When workers dream of a life beyond the factory gates | The Economist
See the chart
That is whats most telling.
Foxconn: When workers dream of a life beyond the factory gates | The Economist
Our union shop had random drug testing. A dirty U.A. and you are gone. No treatment program for that. In order for you to get help/treatment, you have to tell them first that you have a problem before you have a dirty U.A. So they can say they have a drug alcohol treatment program, but I don't know of anybody that used it. A supervisior would pull you off the bus and drive you to the U.A. site and you had two hours to pee in a cup. I didn't have a problem with it but the U.A. people did. They said we were the only company that would not let us pick up our cup, they made the U.A. people do it. But guess what, we had to handle it to pee in it. haha.
Random drug testing sounds like grounds for a charter of rights court challenge on the basis of right to privace.
Has anyone looked into that?
You can't just drug test liek that up here in Canada.
You need a reason to test like an accident or in the case of my employer just cause and several people to sign off on a proper reason.
Drug testing is in my opinion abused and used as an intimidation strategy.
I know a few fellows that have problems.
Starts with a trip to the doctor and some back pills.
Most guys learn to avoid the pitfalls but its easy to make a mistake and have drink the day before your nigh shift and take one of your back pills...
Next thing you know your dopey and should nto be coming to work.
One beer at supper, and a back pill because your hurting is all it takes to be impaired but some guys judgement is impaired with just that and they don't realize its all that it takes to be too messed up to work.
I knew one guy that lived on Coke.
Bosses loved him because he would pull cable like mad and outwork the rest of the crew....
Double standard.
They knew something was wrong but said and did nothing.
Funny how things changed.
I remember when drinking on the job was not realy all that big a deal.
Boss would order beer and pizza as an incentive to get us to stay late.
The boss had a bottle in his desk.
The compnay meeting would end or off site buisness woudl end and we would head to the bar on company time.....
Now people freak out at the thought of the smell of beer on your breath.
Trying to fire people because they have a leagal limit bellow what is exceptable to drive but " policy " is zero tollerence.
Has anyone looked into that?
You can't just drug test liek that up here in Canada.
You need a reason to test like an accident or in the case of my employer just cause and several people to sign off on a proper reason.
Drug testing is in my opinion abused and used as an intimidation strategy.
I know a few fellows that have problems.
Starts with a trip to the doctor and some back pills.
Most guys learn to avoid the pitfalls but its easy to make a mistake and have drink the day before your nigh shift and take one of your back pills...
Next thing you know your dopey and should nto be coming to work.
One beer at supper, and a back pill because your hurting is all it takes to be impaired but some guys judgement is impaired with just that and they don't realize its all that it takes to be too messed up to work.
I knew one guy that lived on Coke.
Bosses loved him because he would pull cable like mad and outwork the rest of the crew....
Double standard.
They knew something was wrong but said and did nothing.
Funny how things changed.
I remember when drinking on the job was not realy all that big a deal.
Boss would order beer and pizza as an incentive to get us to stay late.
The boss had a bottle in his desk.
The compnay meeting would end or off site buisness woudl end and we would head to the bar on company time.....
Now people freak out at the thought of the smell of beer on your breath.
Trying to fire people because they have a leagal limit bellow what is exceptable to drive but " policy " is zero tollerence.
Yes I would tend to agree that workplace [and any other place] drug testing is not seem to be done in Canada. I base that by my experiences in that fine country. Lord what a joke. All I can say it is a hell of a lot better here when the loadies know that they have to be sober and straight at work.
NOS. How in the hell did go get it in your mind that it is a personal 'right of privacy' [to be loaded at work] if an employer is paying an employee wages based upon ALL the employee being there [including the brain cells] during working hours? I have noticed that you subscribe to a notion that only individuals [usually union members]have any rights. Here in the States we ascribe to the notion that a person has rights as long as they don't infringe upon another's rights.
NOS. How in the hell did go get it in your mind that it is a personal 'right of privacy' [to be loaded at work] if an employer is paying an employee wages based upon ALL the employee being there [including the brain cells] during working hours? I have noticed that you subscribe to a notion that only individuals [usually union members]have any rights. Here in the States we ascribe to the notion that a person has rights as long as they don't infringe upon another's rights.
I don't take drugs ( unless perscribed and the ones I get aren't any fun ).
But I take offence to the idea that what anyone puts in the their body is anyones buisness unless they are doing it at work or before work.
I don't care who you are or where you work.
Your personal life is your own and any leagal or illeagal activities you do that do are your buisness.
My employer seems to think that its there buisness even if its not on company time.
If my doctor perscribes me something for pain or muscle spams injuries ect and I take as directed and follow his recomendations then its between me and my doctor unless he advises me I can't do my job and take this... ( about the use of machinery for example )
Is all the employee there?
Is all the manager there?
I know a couple of people I suspect of being sociopaths at work.
They are " all there " and I don't trust them.
If you ask me they should not have jobs where people use dangerous machinery and explosives but no one tests to see if they are mentaly fit to be there.
Nice to see you joined us OS.
I remember one superintendent thatusd to tell us to shut up and get to work because we were hired from the shoulders down.
Thats true.
He used to look for people to fire and he took pleasure in it.
Fired me a Few times ( actualy he used to say he wanted to fire all the electricians ).
But the invitable true that once he calmed down he needed us meant a call would come reversing that before monday morning
But I take offence to the idea that what anyone puts in the their body is anyones buisness unless they are doing it at work or before work.
I don't care who you are or where you work.
Your personal life is your own and any leagal or illeagal activities you do that do are your buisness.
My employer seems to think that its there buisness even if its not on company time.
If my doctor perscribes me something for pain or muscle spams injuries ect and I take as directed and follow his recomendations then its between me and my doctor unless he advises me I can't do my job and take this... ( about the use of machinery for example )
Is all the employee there?
Is all the manager there?
I know a couple of people I suspect of being sociopaths at work.
They are " all there " and I don't trust them.
If you ask me they should not have jobs where people use dangerous machinery and explosives but no one tests to see if they are mentaly fit to be there.
Nice to see you joined us OS.
I remember one superintendent thatusd to tell us to shut up and get to work because we were hired from the shoulders down.
Thats true.
He used to look for people to fire and he took pleasure in it.
Fired me a Few times ( actualy he used to say he wanted to fire all the electricians ).
But the invitable true that once he calmed down he needed us meant a call would come reversing that before monday morning
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NOS
Worked at a place in the engineering office. A good friend there was a cousin of the owner of the company so he could get away with hell and by extension I could too. Drug testing in industry had just stared and we decided to freak out the 50% of the crew in the shops [noon time loadies and everyday stoners] by having me walk through each shop [talking loudly] with George following me and trying unsuccessfully to calm me down. I would say "Damn IT! It's the Principle of it...I ain't gonna take no Test". Georgie would say [with shop people close by] " What the Hell... you don't take dope...do you?...what are you worrying about". And so on through 4 of the 6 buildings before I lost my nerve to do any more even with George in on it.
Within 10 minutes the Chief Stewart Larry Mercer punched out and headed to the union office [IAM]. The entire industrial plant was by then at a standstill....mostly groups talking and waving their arms. This is the Lord's truth; I recall a guy throwing a 32 oz. ball peen at his roll-a-way while cussing in a rage. If there was a drug test he was right...he'd have to go to drug school. [BTY, about a year later Calvin and another guy were shot to death in a drug deal gone bad]. Complete riot in all shops. Even when the union Business Agent Ron Boggs came down and talked to management and then went to each shop and said there was not going to be any testing and that management had no idea where every one suddenly got that notion in their heads their was still a number that were pulling their hair out. There were attempts to find out who had started the ugly scuttlebutt but, surprisingly, it was never traced to Georgie and me.
You are right. I think people that take mind altering substances should find jobs that are in tune with their % of unaffected brain cell. Like washing dishes, working at a car wash, putting flyers on peoples door knobs. Anything below working at 7-11. They are not only stupid but can be very funny!
Worked at a place in the engineering office. A good friend there was a cousin of the owner of the company so he could get away with hell and by extension I could too. Drug testing in industry had just stared and we decided to freak out the 50% of the crew in the shops [noon time loadies and everyday stoners] by having me walk through each shop [talking loudly] with George following me and trying unsuccessfully to calm me down. I would say "Damn IT! It's the Principle of it...I ain't gonna take no Test". Georgie would say [with shop people close by] " What the Hell... you don't take dope...do you?...what are you worrying about". And so on through 4 of the 6 buildings before I lost my nerve to do any more even with George in on it.
Within 10 minutes the Chief Stewart Larry Mercer punched out and headed to the union office [IAM]. The entire industrial plant was by then at a standstill....mostly groups talking and waving their arms. This is the Lord's truth; I recall a guy throwing a 32 oz. ball peen at his roll-a-way while cussing in a rage. If there was a drug test he was right...he'd have to go to drug school. [BTY, about a year later Calvin and another guy were shot to death in a drug deal gone bad]. Complete riot in all shops. Even when the union Business Agent Ron Boggs came down and talked to management and then went to each shop and said there was not going to be any testing and that management had no idea where every one suddenly got that notion in their heads their was still a number that were pulling their hair out. There were attempts to find out who had started the ugly scuttlebutt but, surprisingly, it was never traced to Georgie and me.
You are right. I think people that take mind altering substances should find jobs that are in tune with their % of unaffected brain cell. Like washing dishes, working at a car wash, putting flyers on peoples door knobs. Anything below working at 7-11. They are not only stupid but can be very funny!
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I am not in total agreement here.
If I decide to smoke a bowl or too in the evening while hanging out at the house on my time is my business. It is not my bosses business to question what I do on my time.
There are a lot of folks I work with that drink way too much and stay up way to late doing it.
I do realize it is illegal. And if I choose to take the chance of purchasing it illeagally, that's on me on my time.
None of their business to drug test me and I pee positive because I smoked a little pot on Saturday night and ate a sleeve of Oreos.
I have had a professional job, most would consider, a respectable job, and have been know to indulge in the use of mind altering drugs. Never has it affected my job performance, my decision making, or my attendence.
And I don't work at 7-11 or hang signs on door knobs.
If I decide to smoke a bowl or too in the evening while hanging out at the house on my time is my business. It is not my bosses business to question what I do on my time.
There are a lot of folks I work with that drink way too much and stay up way to late doing it.
I do realize it is illegal. And if I choose to take the chance of purchasing it illeagally, that's on me on my time.
None of their business to drug test me and I pee positive because I smoked a little pot on Saturday night and ate a sleeve of Oreos.
I have had a professional job, most would consider, a respectable job, and have been know to indulge in the use of mind altering drugs. Never has it affected my job performance, my decision making, or my attendence.
And I don't work at 7-11 or hang signs on door knobs.
Well I have seen a couple of different sides of it.
I think its reasonable to test someone when there is a reason for it.
But I do not agree with the idea of just random testing.
A good friend of mine developed a drug problem durring the big strike of 09.
He had colourful life in his youth.
Army, biker club a little dope and he was a bad ass.
He was not any of those things when I first met him.
But the stress of the strike, his marrage fell apart and he got back into drugs.
He hung himslef in his home on Christmas eve 09.
They found his body a week later.
Some people just Fugg up.
A good worker, productive member of society and all around good fellow can loose it all to drugs.
This is one of my core beliefes.
Drug addition and drug abuse are a mental health problem.
If its something that can be caught early and cured maybe we would not loose so many people.
Could be booze could even be gambling ( I knew another fellow who gambled and fell of the waggon dropping a few coins in one of those stuff animal claw machines with his grandson at the mall. )
Sometimes you get lucky and people are there to catch you when you fall.
I know a few good union and company types that have been there to catch people.
But guys like my chum sometimes slip through.
I heard of his death through another friend who was working at the grave yard durring the strike and loaded our mutual friend in the cremete.
Awful thing OS, we were even talking about that today infact.
Funny thing about drugs and drug testing though is this only realy became a problem when the tests became cheap and easy.
Before that we looked after our own.
Now I am not saying its right because we papered it over more than we helped by enabling people and using the excuse " But he's a good guy and gets the job done ".
Ever notice that as an example 4 guys go on a fishing trip and one of them is an alcholic, Its usualy the alcholic that is the least loaded of bunch, looks after his cutting loose drunk buddies more than the other way around?
I seen that happen too .
The functional addict that we cover for.
More likely he is the one that prevents someone from drinking and diving or pulls a drunk out of the lake.
He's reliable, but he' slowiling drinking himself to an early grave.
Now we out that guy and sometimes I don't think we are dealing with the problem any better than we did before, he just looses his job ( or get a labled and his reputation is soiled ).
I think we more treatment and a better way of dealing with addiction more than we need random testing.
Yup Poor Terry swinging from a rope untill he was bloated and stinking up the house.
That mental picture sticks with me.
If I was a better friend, I may have tried to do something before it came to that.
I think its reasonable to test someone when there is a reason for it.
But I do not agree with the idea of just random testing.
A good friend of mine developed a drug problem durring the big strike of 09.
He had colourful life in his youth.
Army, biker club a little dope and he was a bad ass.
He was not any of those things when I first met him.
But the stress of the strike, his marrage fell apart and he got back into drugs.
He hung himslef in his home on Christmas eve 09.
They found his body a week later.
Some people just Fugg up.
A good worker, productive member of society and all around good fellow can loose it all to drugs.
This is one of my core beliefes.
Drug addition and drug abuse are a mental health problem.
If its something that can be caught early and cured maybe we would not loose so many people.
Could be booze could even be gambling ( I knew another fellow who gambled and fell of the waggon dropping a few coins in one of those stuff animal claw machines with his grandson at the mall. )
Sometimes you get lucky and people are there to catch you when you fall.
I know a few good union and company types that have been there to catch people.
But guys like my chum sometimes slip through.
I heard of his death through another friend who was working at the grave yard durring the strike and loaded our mutual friend in the cremete.
Awful thing OS, we were even talking about that today infact.
Funny thing about drugs and drug testing though is this only realy became a problem when the tests became cheap and easy.
Before that we looked after our own.
Now I am not saying its right because we papered it over more than we helped by enabling people and using the excuse " But he's a good guy and gets the job done ".
Ever notice that as an example 4 guys go on a fishing trip and one of them is an alcholic, Its usualy the alcholic that is the least loaded of bunch, looks after his cutting loose drunk buddies more than the other way around?
I seen that happen too .
The functional addict that we cover for.
More likely he is the one that prevents someone from drinking and diving or pulls a drunk out of the lake.
He's reliable, but he' slowiling drinking himself to an early grave.
Now we out that guy and sometimes I don't think we are dealing with the problem any better than we did before, he just looses his job ( or get a labled and his reputation is soiled ).
I think we more treatment and a better way of dealing with addiction more than we need random testing.
Yup Poor Terry swinging from a rope untill he was bloated and stinking up the house.
That mental picture sticks with me.
If I was a better friend, I may have tried to do something before it came to that.
With addiction, a person is not going to get well by being forced into it.
I have dealt with it first hand in my own home. My wife is a uncontrolable wine drinker. I pushed, forced,had her arrested, left her in jail, filed for divorce, did everything I could possibly do. She went to rehab more than once, more than twise. The times she did were either forced or she was attempting to save our relationship.
Until she finally decided she had enough and went into trearment on her own, which was a 8 month program away from home, did she get sober.
I had to quit drinking as well.
She is now 4 years without alcohol. But, there is not a day that goes by, she doesn't want to drink.
So my feeling about alcohol and addiction is first hand knowledge and personal experience.
If a person doesn't truely want to stop they won't. But if they have had enough and take the proper steps and get to the root of the issue, they can be successful and stay sober. There has to be a desire and proper steps have to be taken and continued to be taken as long as they live.
The desire never goes away. It is a constant thought.
I have dealt with it first hand in my own home. My wife is a uncontrolable wine drinker. I pushed, forced,had her arrested, left her in jail, filed for divorce, did everything I could possibly do. She went to rehab more than once, more than twise. The times she did were either forced or she was attempting to save our relationship.
Until she finally decided she had enough and went into trearment on her own, which was a 8 month program away from home, did she get sober.
I had to quit drinking as well.
She is now 4 years without alcohol. But, there is not a day that goes by, she doesn't want to drink.
So my feeling about alcohol and addiction is first hand knowledge and personal experience.
If a person doesn't truely want to stop they won't. But if they have had enough and take the proper steps and get to the root of the issue, they can be successful and stay sober. There has to be a desire and proper steps have to be taken and continued to be taken as long as they live.
The desire never goes away. It is a constant thought.
my wife tried to tell me a couple a weeks ago, that i am addicted to my pain med, i take nucynta er, plus celebrex, and gabapentin. but the nucynta is the only narcotic. she said could you stop taking them, i said yes if i want to be in pain.also i have not even drank any alcohol since i started the nucyta a couple of months ago, not that i drank much anyway.
I was having a coughing fit one night, so I got up half asleep and took a tablespoon of cough syrup I had left over. The next morning I was pulled off my bus and had to U.A.
no big deal. Three days later I got a call from a laboratory in Virginia somewhere and they said I tested positive for Codeine. I had to get the cough syrup bottle and phone in the doctor's name, the prescription number, and the pharmacy where it was filled. The wife, son and I all had the same stuff, we had three bottles to start with. If mine wasn't the last bottle left and I had all the information, I would have been fired. Pretty ridiculous over a table spoon of cough medicine. I definitely told my story around work as a heads up.
no big deal. Three days later I got a call from a laboratory in Virginia somewhere and they said I tested positive for Codeine. I had to get the cough syrup bottle and phone in the doctor's name, the prescription number, and the pharmacy where it was filled. The wife, son and I all had the same stuff, we had three bottles to start with. If mine wasn't the last bottle left and I had all the information, I would have been fired. Pretty ridiculous over a table spoon of cough medicine. I definitely told my story around work as a heads up.
See how complicated life is?
Tell me.
How did life get so complicated.
Dealing with piss tests and tracking chips.
Camera's watching me.
It all sounds quite normal to some.
But to me this is almost science fiction turned real life nightmare.
I don't like any of this.
Work untill 65 and then keep on working.
Fewer rights.
Less privacy.
More productivity.
Less rewards.
Low return on investment.
Technological displacement.
Climate change.
Chemicals in the food
Think about it.
This all sounds like elements in a bad movie plot.
But its actualy our life now.
Yes this thread started about right to work but it has touched on many other themes.
So how come I have to come to a minibike forum to find people that actualy think about these things.
Is the rest of the world gone stupid?
I think its not getting smarter and thats being kind....
Tell me.
How did life get so complicated.
Dealing with piss tests and tracking chips.
Camera's watching me.
It all sounds quite normal to some.
But to me this is almost science fiction turned real life nightmare.
I don't like any of this.
Work untill 65 and then keep on working.
Fewer rights.
Less privacy.
More productivity.
Less rewards.
Low return on investment.
Technological displacement.
Climate change.
Chemicals in the food
Think about it.
This all sounds like elements in a bad movie plot.
But its actualy our life now.
Yes this thread started about right to work but it has touched on many other themes.
So how come I have to come to a minibike forum to find people that actualy think about these things.
Is the rest of the world gone stupid?
I think its not getting smarter and thats being kind....