Raceseng / ignition coil comparison test

[ryan at raceseng]

The topic was brought up recently as to what is the best performing ignition coil. So we put together a write-up on our blog with the data we collected while testing the Genuine Honda, Clone, and Yamakoyo coils when we were developing our S1 and S2 billet aluminum flywheels. Check out the link below to see the data and read the results of our testing! :thumbsup:

IGNITION COIL TEST

 

[Ibanez616]

Nice to know :thumbsup:

 

[mmisterbungl]

Good stuff, keep it coming Ryan!:thumbsup:

 

[minidragbike]

I got flywheels and roller rockers, soon to have push rods from you all. I have to also order another set of 1.3 rollers monday morning, need them ASAP.

 

[Oldschool]

At the risk of being rude.

What does this prove or how does one use this info?

Its great to know your flywheel triggers the mag but does this help with the retarding problems?

You know what would be realy great?

Could you build a flywheel with 4 internal magnets to run a lighting package and 1 external trigger for a pick up coil?

Build that and get back to me.
I'll have an ignition ready for it in a few weeks.....

 

[ryan at raceseng]

I got flywheels and roller rockers, soon to have push rods from you all. I have to also order another set of 1.3 rollers monday morning, need them ASAP.

Got your order all ready to go out today, thanks Charles!:thumbsup:

 

[ryan at raceseng]

At the risk of being rude.

What does this prove or how does one use this info?

Its great to know your flywheel triggers the mag but does this help with the retarding problems?

You know what would be realy great?

Could you build a flywheel with 4 internal magnets to run a lighting package and 1 external trigger for a pick up coil?

Build that and get back to me.
I'll have an ignition ready for it in a few weeks.....

True the magnet we use in our flywheels is very strong and will create a spark at larger gaps than the stock flywheel. however, for the test the only change in the testing configuration was only the coils so it is still an accurate test of the coil strength.

the data is useful because since the flywheel configuration remains the same throughout the testing, the maximum gap the spark can jump is directly correlated to how strong the spark from the coil is. The stronger the spark the coil creates, the hotter the ignition charge, and the more efficiently the fuel in the combustion process is burned.

So even when you close the gap back down to whats typical on your spark plug, the coil will still produce that same amount of voltage regardless of the gap. So in the end the Honda coil will still be the more efficient ignition coil.

we are working on some testing and in the very early stages of development in coming up with an effective solution to the retard issue, we'll definitely be posting up new info as we gather it. thanks for the input, were always open to suggestions.:thumbsup:

 

[minidragbike]

Thanks, those was 1.2 ratio, not 1.3 ratio I needed.
Need them this up coming weekend. :grind:

 

[Oldschool]

So even when you close the gap back down to whats typical on your spark plug, the coil will still produce that same amount of voltage regardless of the gap. So in the end the Honda coil will still be the more efficient ignition coil.

we are working on some testing and in the very early stages of development in coming up with an effective solution to the retard issue, we'll definitely be posting up new info as we gather it. thanks for the input, were always open to suggestions.:thumbsup:

Your first answere is a bit of an over simplification....
There are a lot of variables but the limiting factor to the max output of the spark is the saturation point of the iron in the coil. At a smaller gap depending on a few other factors like resistor plug or boot the spark energy is probably higher. Since there hasn't been much complaints from people about coild failures provided they remove the resistor from the boot I would not be too concerned with the life of the ignition coil or heating the iron up and damaging the insulation.
To sum things up the coils were never designed to work at such high rpms or to be driven with such high density magnets.

Offer stands on the CDI.
I can get something running in a couple of weeks if you build the flywheel to my specs.

For what its worth your ignition solution is already sitting on a shelf for about 40 dollars depending on the qualitiy you can order and move. The only design work you need to do is build a match set of magnets in your flywheel to a set of charge coils. And one finaly tip I will give you is to get awqay from the rare earth magnets in favour of something a little weaker and more mechanicaly robust. I would also go with a much thinner lamination for the iron cores, but you can stay with the old reliable 2 3/4% Si low carbon dynamo special.

Personal feelings nows on Ignitions....
I would REALY like an inductive ignition for the final solution.
Yes they are power hogs but you can make a REALY hot arc with a much longer durration that will simply blow a regualr off the shelf performance CDI out of the water.
Do people realy want this and does it offer a significant enough improvement to warrent the trouble to design?

 

[saychz316]

Your first answere is a bit of an over simplification....
There are a lot of variables but the limiting factor to the max output of the spark is the saturation point of the iron in the coil. At a smaller gap depending on a few other factors like resistor plug or boot the spark energy is probably higher. Since there hasn't been much complaints from people about coild failures provided they remove the resistor from the boot I would not be too concerned with the life of the ignition coil or heating the iron up and damaging the insulation.
To sum things up the coils were never designed to work at such high rpms or to be driven with such high density magnets.

Offer stands on the CDI.
I can get something running in a couple of weeks if you build the flywheel to my specs.

For what its worth your ignition solution is already sitting on a shelf for about 40 dollars depending on the qualitiy you can order and move. The only design work you need to do is build a match set of magnets in your flywheel to a set of charge coils. And one finaly tip I will give you is to get awqay from the rare earth magnets in favour of something a little weaker and more mechanicaly robust. I would also go with a much thinner lamination for the iron cores, but you can stay with the old reliable 2 3/4% Si low carbon dynamo special.

Personal feelings nows on Ignitions....
I would REALY like an inductive ignition for the final solution.
Yes they are power hogs but you can make a REALY hot arc with a much longer durration that will simply blow a regualr off the shelf performance CDI out of the water.
Do people realy want this and does it offer a significant enough improvement to warrent the trouble to design?

what do you have?

why dont you build the flywheel, or pay to have one built to your specs, test it, and market it?

if its (your ignition system and flywheel) that good, many will buy it. myself included. i have no problem spending money on good parts, and a quality magneto or whatever ignition you have in mind would fit the bill. keeping the timing where it needs to be on the big end at high rpm's is a must.

please, share with us...

if i have missed something about your ignition system design, them please forgive me. but im not going to read through a couple thousand posts to find it. either way, let us know.

 

[Oldschool]

what do you have?

why dont you build the flywheel, or pay to have one built to your specs, test it, and market it?

if its (your ignition system and flywheel) that good, many will buy it. myself included. i have no problem spending money on good parts, and a quality magneto or whatever ignition you have in mind would fit the bill. keeping the timing where it needs to be on the big end at high rpm's is a must.

please, share with us...

if i have missed something about your ignition system design, them please forgive me. but im not going to read through a couple thousand posts to find it. either way, let us know.

I don't have the tooling to produce flywheels.

But for anyone interested you can get aftermarket GY6 ignitions that meet most of the requirements.
Trouble is getting a flywhel strong enough to spin at the high speeds modified GX motors turning at these days.

You need internal magnets with a low flux density for the high rpms but a charge coil designed to put out the minimum amount of power at low rpms.

You also need the right kind of charge coil with the proper turns ration and thin laminations like those used in modern VDF motors.

Then you need a magnet in the flywheel face and trigger coil OR some sort optical or Hall effect pick up system.

This is not the kind of thing one just assembles off the shelf without a lot of thought. But if someone wants help to make it I can do the math.

HEI and old Chrysler Inductive ignitions are generaly the starting point for hot variable dwell solid state ignitions. There are drawings and all kinds of technical info out there for those interested in trying to adapt one or build one from scratch.
HEI is nice but its power hog compared to a short sharp snap from a CDI.